Episode 294

How to Hire a Web Development Technology Partner for Your WordPress LMS Website Project with WisdmLabs

Learn how to hire a web development technology partner for your WordPress LMS website project with WisdmLabs in this episode of the LMScast podcast hosted by Chris Badgett from LifterLMS. Rohan and Shreejith from the WisdmLabs team share how they approach projects, and what you should look for when hiring a developer.

How to hire a web development technology partner for your WordPress LMS website project with WisdmLabs - Rohan Thakare

WisdmLabs is an agency that focuses on doing work with WooCommerce, eLearning, and mobile apps. Working with an agency on your project can be very useful in helping you achieve your goals and connecting the ideas you have to the tools you’ll need to best deliver your content. Agencies often even work with you to implement the tools and get your site set up.

When working on a WordPress LMS website or any site where you’re trying to solve a complex problem, working with your developer to find a solution will usually work out better than trying to force a specific outcome without consulting others on the best possible tools to implement your overall strategy.

Having this consultative approach to development allows you to more easily reach your end goals without getting caught up in the tech.

One thing you’ll find in the website development space is that you can get two of the following: cheap, fast, or quality. When a project is cheap and fast, you’ll likely suffer on quality. Likewise, a project can be fast and quality, but it will be expensive. This is an important point when looking at your project on an overview level to determine how things are going compared to what you’re looking for.

How to hire a web development technology partner for your WordPress LMS website project with WisdmLabs - Rohan Thakare

Many sites the WisdmLabs team has worked on incorporate recurring revenue via subscriptions, which is a great method for scaling your business. With a recurring model, every time you have a renewal, you’ve made a sale. And keeping an existing customer is much easier than finding a new one, so every new customer contributes to your growth as long as your churn rate is low enough that you’re not losing more subscriptions than you gain.

You can find out more about Rohan and Shreejith from WisdmLabs at WisdmLabs.com. You can also tweet to them at @WisdmLabs. They have a blog on their site, along with a suite of other resources that will help you build out your eCommerce or LMS website, so be sure to check that out.

At LifterLMS.com you can learn more about new developments and how you can use LifterLMS to build online courses and membership sites. Subscribe to our newsletter for updates, developments, and future episodes of LMScast. If you like this episode of LMScast, you can browse more episodes here. Thank you for joining us!

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Chris Badgett:

You’ve come to the right place if you’re a course creator looking to build more impact, income, and freedom. LMScast is the number one podcast for course creators just like you. I’m your guide, Chris Badgett. I’m the co-founder of the most powerful tool for building, selling, and protecting engaging online courses called LifterLMS. Enjoy the show.

Chris Badgett:

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of LMScast. My name’s Chris Badgett, and I’m joined by two very special guests. I’ve got Rohan and Shreejith from WisdmLabs. That’s W-I-S-D-M Labs dot com. Welcome to the show, guys.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Chris.

Speaker 3:

Thanks so much, Chris.

Chris Badgett:

I’m excited to get into this topic with you. WisdmLabs is an agency. They do work focusing on WooCommerce, e-learning, mobile apps. As a WordPress LMS agency and an e-commerce agency, this is the world that I came out of with Lifter. It’s what I did before Lifter. I talk to people all the time who are looking for help. Maybe they chose a tool to build their website with, maybe they haven’t chosen a tool yet, but they realize that maybe I should find an agency to help maybe achieve my goals. Or maybe they have tried it, they went for the cheapest possible solution somewhere and had a bad experience. They’re like, “All right, I learned the hard way, I need to clean up this mess.” Let’s start the conversation, how does somebody choose an agency or a freelancer partner to work with? What should they be looking for?

Speaker 3:

Okay. Thanks for inviting us to the podcast, Chris. Okay. That’s a great question actually. It’s very important because a lot of our clients actually are the people who have burned their hands. These are the best clients we’ve got, because they stayed with us for long and they had the worst experience, and from there, we take them to the best experience. But over the years, we’ve realized that there are some certain things that if people actually do some sort of due diligence, then they would end up getting to work with the good guys and not have to go through a lot of trauma later on.

Speaker 3:

Okay so, what we’ve seen is that when people come to us, generally they come via two or three different sources. First, let’s say if it’s a [inaudible 00:02:46] customers, then they like you to check [inaudible 00:02:49] site, and it’s the people that you recommend. Now, why would you want to recommend them is because you know them personally. Okay, you are actually putting your own reputation on the line. That means you have verified them, vetted them, and [inaudible 00:03:02] companies to work for. You can work with them, and you can trust them. They have that level of trust already built in, you will recommend that they come from there.

Speaker 3:

The other [inaudible 00:03:15] are people actually certain movement. Generally, you will start your search with something of a problem that you have and you will end up on some websites, where they will offer the solution of the problem. If you would come through a source like that and you end up on the site for [inaudible 00:03:36], you already looked at these guys, are aware of what this kind of problem is, and they already have a solution because they have the experience of having worked on it. In that case, they are generally [inaudible 00:03:49] because of knowledge that they’re sharing, they’re educating them at that point of time. They start building that trust, and then they start exploring because it’s not the first time that they will come to the website. They might come for two or three different problems later on. They feel, like, okay, I now feel comfortable that these people know their stuff. Okay, let me talk to them.

Speaker 3:

On the third way is they actually land up on the landing page, [inaudible 00:04:12] BBC ad, or they be landing through Google on the page. At that point of time, it’s very important that they continue their due diligence. And together whether this company has put up many [inaudible 00:04:28] pages about this software or about this system, and they’re talking about different aspects of it. About optimization, maybe some problems. Okay, that way they can figure out whether these are the right guys or not. You can only talk about the problems if you [inaudible 00:04:43] with them. You can’t solve any problems [inaudible 00:04:46]. These are three sources that we see typically. The people who end up working with the good guys come through. That’s much different than when [inaudible 00:05:00] or something that [inaudible 00:05:03], but you want the best of … and by the right people.

Speaker 2:

That’s a huge risk that you take when you go with a freelancer or somebody. Maybe you will end up paying less. Maybe you will get good stuff. But there’s a chance. If you don’t get what you want, you’re losing money, but more importantly you’re losing time. That’s very important.

Chris Badgett:

I’ve heard this saying that you can get cheap, fast, or quality, pick two. If something’s cheap and fast, it’s probably too good to be true. That’s what I’ve found out, and I see a lot of people learn that lesson the hard way. You said one of the ways that people come into WisdmLabs, which we recommend at LifterLMS as a service provider if you need help with your LifterLMS, your WooCommerce setup, is all the content you all have. You have an awesome blog. I really appreciate it. I don’t know, it was a couple of years ago somebody on your team interviewed me for an article, and they really put a lot of work into it. It wasn’t like a quick, let’s just slap up a piece of content. When I saw that, to me that built a lot of trust. I’m like, “Oh, they’re really wanting to create high-quality content here.” Can you tell us more about how you do that?

Speaker 3:

Okay, let’s say for the interviews we run. It’s very important for us to actually understand the person [inaudible 00:06:39]. We actually do a lot of due diligence on them. We figure out where they’re posting, what they’re talking about, what … Pinterest, what are their expertise. Then our accounting process, it was brainstorming within IT where they go through the profile of the person. Then now they [inaudible 00:06:58] and brainstorm for the questions that you’re asking.

Speaker 3:

The reason we do this is because it’s very important that you don’t end up with just a post, you end up with knowledge that helps the readers. If you ask [inaudible 00:07:11] question, then and only then will it make you think, will it make you feel like, oh yeah, this is something I need to talk about. This is something that makes sense. If you already said that you felt that those questions were thought of. The reason, because there was more that was put it. To get really fun questioning with very, very important technique, in all the things that we do.

Speaker 3:

In fact, when we are talking about clients or prospects, we have this habit of asking deadpan questions. The reason is that many times, people come with an understanding of, oh, I had this [inaudible 00:07:48]. Okay, but they will not necessarily really know what their view [inaudible 00:07:57]. They’re [inaudible 00:07:57] much different. When we ask them directly question, they’re forced to think. When they’re forced to think, they stop in their tracks, and then oh, [inaudible 00:08:11]. Then oh, maybe it is not like that. Maybe it is like that. Oh. Then it strikes them that maybe you could do this way. Then it’s very easy for us to get in our solution, and that’s really helped up. Questioning thoughtfully is the technique that we use.

Speaker 2:

[inaudible 00:08:27] they also get a little [inaudible 00:08:29] that way, asking me so many questions. But then that really helps us get to the root of the problems and solve them. We have [inaudible 00:08:42] as such. That really helps.

Chris Badgett:

I think that’s really smart. If you are going and you’re looking for a service provider to help you with your WordPress LMS website, or WooCommerce. Whatever you’re trying to do, if the person is not asking you a lot of questions and they’re just saying, “Yep, we can do that. Here’s where to pay.” That, to me, is a red flag. Because when you hire an agency, they need to be curious before they close the sale. If they’re not curious and making sure that they understand what you are, what your goals are, where you’re at in the process, what you’ve tried and didn’t work. These are all important questions that any agency should be asking during the sales process. Would you agree?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. In fact, you know what, the other thing that we keep repeating, that prospects are like patient stomach [inaudible 00:09:39]. It’s the doctor’s job to figure out what is the real problem, and then suggest at solution. Should a doctor rush to give medications? No, it makes no sense. They need to know exactly what the problem is, and what’s going to give them the [inaudible 00:10:00] relief [inaudible 00:10:00], right?

Speaker 3:

Because why this is important is because all of this is a game of trust. We are playing the game of trust. Do anything that can take away trust, and your reputation is gone, all of the hard work that you have put in is gone, at least for that particular interaction with that particular person. And obviously, the other persons that that person can influence ever, [inaudible 00:10:26] you lose that kind of business.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, trust is the currency of relationships and working online, especially because often you don’t meet in person. You have to be good at communicating because you’re not in person, the communication has to be even better if you’re using email and video calls, and stuff like that. Trust is everything. What’s a perfect fit client for WisdmLabs? What are they up to? What’s a great client type for you?

Speaker 2:

A great client would be someone who wants a partner, not an executor.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah. Tell me more.

Speaker 2:

Huh?

Chris Badgett:

Tell me more about that, partner versus executor.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for example there are people who come like, “This is what I want. Give me a quote for that.” That is not the right client for us. This is a problem that I’m trying to solve. Do you have any solutions? Okay, then we are ready to help. What exactly are you looking for? Why are you looking for this? What are you trying to achieve? Do you have any specific requirements, like no I need to go with this, or are you flexible with the solution? Because I think results are more important than what technology [inaudible 00:11:57].

Speaker 3:

Then they start thinking with us. They become a part of our team when we create the [inaudible 00:12:06] approach for their system, with everything that we do must complement their needs. Once we do that, we don’t have to wait for their approval to go ahead, because we already know that they are in, and we need to go ahead and create this for them. Those are the clients who stay with us for the long-term, they have been clients with us for the past four years now. Ever-evolving, they are always open to suggestions. Sometimes when they say, “Oh, this doesn’t really look good,” or maybe there’s a better out there. They are appreciated, and they’re welcome. That’s the sort of clients that we like to have. Unfortunately we have many of them [inaudible 00:12:53] much.

Chris Badgett:

I think that’s really wise. Having a technology partner versus somebody that just does what you think you need. That’s like night and day difference, because you all are the experts on the implementation. You also have the vision of lots of other people who have been in similar situations, so you have all this experience. A client should lean on that expertise. They don’t know what they don’t know, so when you partner with a technology partner and you trust them to help guide and lead you, that’s where the best results come from. And like you’re saying, especially in this industry and the WordPress LMS industry of someone’s making an online course, starting a coaching business, creating a training-based membership site. The website is the business.

Chris Badgett:

I would look at it, it’s not like all right, I’m just going to buy this thing and be done. You’re going to need technology support for the life of your business. I think that’s just the reality of it. People realize that eventually, but they need a technology partner.

Speaker 2:

They do. If I can give you an example, yesterday we have this case that a client came in. He already has Moodle [inaudible 00:14:22] set up. He wanted to integrate it with a WooCommerce [inaudible 00:14:26] purchased based setup, because he wants to sell the courses via the [inaudible 00:14:31] website. Okay, why did you choose Moodle, by the way? Oh, Moodle is the preferred way to go for LMS working site. Because, I don’t know, maybe he would have got that information from Google, he would have gone to some agency, created a Moodle website. But then at the end if he had this vision of selling courses right from the beginning, that company should have helped him set up the LMS on [inaudible 00:14:54].

Speaker 2:

We do have this advisor [inaudible 00:14:58] software that does this job, but then we asked him, “Why did you choose Moodle? Why did you go ahead of our [inaudible 00:15:07] based LMS right from the beginning, then you would not have had to go through the hassle of [inaudible 00:15:11] websites.” He said, “Oh, I never knew that was an option. Because if that was the case, why would I even have something on Moodle?”

Speaker 2:

But then that’s the thing, if he would have gone to us, we could have sold that software and be done with it. But when we go to ask so many questions and he was really impressed. He said, “I’m currently talking to three companies right now, and none of them have suggested me that I could have everything in one place. That saves me so much hassle, I can manage it efficiently.” Again, in those calls, we know okay, this is going to [inaudible 00:15:46] he’s also very happy. Then the clients express it explicitly, like, “I’m so glad that I’m talking to you.” It’s a feeling of accomplishment and fulfillment.

Speaker 3:

That makes all [inaudible 00:16:00].

Speaker 2:

It does, it does.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s, again, the mark of a great technology partner is they’ll often offer, “Hey, can we simplify here? Can we achieve your goal with less moving parts, less dependencies?” That’s a really great point. The reality is the internet and software tools, especially in the LMS and e-Commerce industry, I talk to a lot of people that are just completely overwhelmed at the amount of research, trying to make a choice for what they need. Really, why not just lean on your technology partner to help you figure that out, because they have the experience and the industry track record. Which is I wanted to get into next with you all.

Chris Badgett:

One of the things I love about WisdmLabs is your track record, your history. We’re recording this episode in the beginning of 2020, how long have you all be working with WooCommerce?

Speaker 3:

WooCommerce? It’s right from the beginning.

Chris Badgett:

Give us a year, what year?

Speaker 3:

[inaudible 00:17:05] LMS a little later, but then [inaudible 00:17:09] Commerce, it was right from the beginning.

Chris Badgett:

What year is this, approximately?

Speaker 3:

2012.

Speaker 2:

[inaudible 00:17:14], yeah.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah. Awesome. You’ve done service agency work for WooCommerce for a long time. A user can install WooCommerce and pick some plugins, and add some stuff, but where od people start bringing you in for WooCommerce? What’s your sweet spot for people who are using WooCommerce?

Speaker 3:

Okay, basically in this case, taking cue from an Opera example, we then become something like a super-specialist. We are not a general physician, we are [inaudible 00:18:03] a super-specialist. Generally what happens is, what you’ve seen is we’ve done [inaudible 00:18:08] life cycle of a client. Especially with [inaudible 00:18:13] the typical clients having understand that they want the CMS, have installed WordPress, figure out WooCommerce is the way to go. Then have settled to plugins, and at that point in time they are struggling with something. [inaudible 00:18:28] were not what you heard, some things are not flowing, payments are an issue.

Speaker 3:

Okay, we have a significant amount of client in working with subscriptions. One of the most sought after ways of doing business, subscriptions obviously because that means you have your clients, customers buying for lifetime. We see a lot of these clients coming from these high-level requirements, and they enter, I won’t really say our final, but they get in touch with that at that point in time. They’re journey thus starts then, and in most cases it continues. Because now they have found the right partner who they can rely on, and they can now focus on their business. See, that’s the most important part. The ability to be able to focus on your business, not be bothered by everyday technology problems is one of the primary goals that we are attempting to solve with our customers.

Speaker 3:

Because that creates extreme value for them, and it could also end up creating value for us because now we have the customer engaged with us for a lifetime. We can focus on their problems. Because we are working with customers [inaudible 00:19:43] or only one [inaudible 00:19:46] things. Like, we don’t need e-commerce actually, right? Okay, we are able to focus on the problems [inaudible 00:19:51] and then give them holistic solution that will make their life not just easy, but take their business forward faster. Because like you just said, when they don’t know what they don’t know, there’s no way that they [inaudible 00:20:05].

Chris Badgett:

I love this idea of a specialist for a doctor or physician. WooCommerce, e-commerce, just like LMS, is a platform business. The website is the business. If you go to a general WordPress developer, that’s very different from going to a specialist who understands e-commerce and LMS. Because there’s just a lot of responsibility, the stakes are high. The subscriptions you mentioned, I use WooCommerce subscriptions to sell LifterLMS, is literally the backbone of our financial engine. It needs to be set up perfectly, and if you’re going to run a subscription recurring-revenue business and you choose WooCommerce, and maybe you need to do something else to customize the experience or dashboard in some way, you want a strong technology partner to help you with that.

Speaker 2:

Chris, you might not be knowing this, but we are the only company who is recommended by WooCommerce subscriptions. So the idea [inaudible 00:21:20], we have tied up with that. But even now, whenever we come across some problem related to subscriptions, WooCommerce recommends us.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s awesome. For those of you listening, if you are looking for a WordPress LMS, LifterLMS has its own e-commerce system, Stripe and PayPal, whatnot. But we also have an add-on to integrate it with WooCommerce, and you can use WooSubscriptions to get the recurring revenue going. If you need help with your site, check out WisdmLabs, because they are at the intersection of WooCommerce, LMS, and subscription, and a subscription business, recurring revenue business. That kind of specialized knowledge is really, really cool.

Chris Badgett:

I wanted to ask you, when it comes to supporting somebody over time, how do you recommend if somebody’s going to choose any company or WisdmLabs as a technology partner, how often, or how much work should we do at a time? How do we think about a website project over time versus a launch or a redo? How do we think about it as more, let’s prioritize? How do we do all that?

Speaker 3:

The thing is, let’s look at it from the way actually the business happens at the owner’s [inaudible 00:22:59]. Most of the times you see e-commerce or even professionals. Let’s say even professionals or teachers, e-commerce professionals and selling, what they do best is selling and teaching. I think what should they focus on? Selling and teaching. That’s it. When you have a strong partner, the partners are integrated with you to the level that you should now only be doing selling or teaching. You figure out [inaudible 00:23:29] brought from one of the products that your customers want. Provide them, sell them, maybe market them. But why you need to worry about technology?

Speaker 3:

[inaudible 00:23:40] or for that matter, okay, which kind of software do I need to do this, and this, and that? Essentially [inaudible 00:23:50] you end up doing is that you would typically have one or two people actually working on their websites. These guys, they will call it [inaudible 00:23:59] guys. The other guys they have to manage their systems [inaudible 00:24:05]. Essentially, they end up spending significant amount of money. Let’s say if someone is in US, if they are asking someone to be in work with them, to look at their admin operations, it still costs them significant amount of money on a yearly basis. Maybe [inaudible 00:24:26].

Speaker 3:

Now, when we are coming is, we are trying to see how we can integrate with our customers to the level that now they don’t just have to think about their website. We become their go-to destination, their man Friday, so that they can be on their quest forever. They just forget about technology. Oh, technology is taken care of by these guys. I just have to sell or teach. I figure out what’s my next post going to be about, and they do all the setup and done. All the elements of maybe it’s graphic design, maybe it’s [inaudible 00:25:09] data, maybe it’s a lot of programming, some [inaudible 00:25:12] or some sort of integration with a third party system. All of that, they won’t have to worry. All they do is [inaudible 00:25:18] this with us, and done.

Speaker 3:

In that case, a detail kind of relationship is always very [inaudible 00:25:26] because not just do we know what they’re trying to do. Because we’ve been knowing them for so long, we know exactly what they need to scale up their business.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s awesome. When you were talking I was thinking about like a race car driver. If your business is this race car thing, the business owner should be driving the car. But they have a team that helps keep everything optimized and improve performance and stuff. You can’t drive the race car and be the mechanic and the support team, and expect to win.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 3:

[inaudible 00:26:04]. And [inaudible 00:26:10]. One part is that it saves them a lot of effort, time. Time is money, right? Let’s say they’re spending 10 days in a month looking at these 100 things, which [inaudible 00:26:22] is very important for living life because you improve business. [inaudible 00:26:26] 10 days saved is like 10 days off.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s a great point. I wanted to switch gears and just have some fun, just because we’re WordPress people here. When is, for example, WooCommerce a better fit than Shopify for somebody who’s kind of on the fence? What would you say? I mean, Shopify is good for some people, WooCommerce is a better option for others. What would make somebody a better fit for WooCommerce?

Speaker 2:

It could be somebody who wants to take control of their environment, who wants a sense of ownership for everything that they have [inaudible 00:27:06], via the technology stack or where it’s hosted [inaudible 00:27:10]. Shopify is a great software. In fact, it’s growing like crazy right now. But then still, it has to do with what’s mine. It’s on a third party, and [inaudible 00:27:26] all together. I want entire ownership of my business.

Speaker 2:

That is one of the major reasons for somebody to choose WordPress, by the way. Because if at all, even [inaudible 00:27:38], there are so many other hosted elements of [inaudible 00:27:41] they can be maybe [inaudible 00:27:44] all those among them, obviously. $10 a month, and they can deliver [inaudible 00:27:49] coaches. Those are there, but then they want to take control and ownership of the entire environment. They want the ability to tweak the software how they want, because when you go to hosted provider, basically you have to be happy with what they have to provide. You’re limited with flexibility options. But that’s not the case when it comes to WordPress or any open-source based providers.

Speaker 2:

There have been cases like, we have also lost some clients because we felt really [inaudible 00:28:26] better frame. We don’t do Shopify, but then Shopify would be a better fit for you. Like we were discussing, we ask a lot of questions. There have also been cases where [inaudible 00:28:38] the discussion, the customer knows, oh, this is not really a problem. We have some other problem, and maybe you’re not the best to solve it. It’s time for you open their eyes, because otherwise I’m going to spend a lot of time and money on solving a problem that didn’t really exist.

Speaker 2:

So we lose business there, but then that’s okay because the trust you have gained there is tremendous, and next time he has anything to ask, about technology or in general stuff, we are the right people. They contact us. That’s how we have clients [inaudible 00:29:12] for the past four to five years. It’s amazing.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s another mark of a good agency, is they will literally refer you away from them if it’s the right solution. Sometimes I refer people to Teachable or Kajabi, or thinkIT [inaudible 00:29:28], because WordPress and Lifter, whatever, is not really the best fit for this person. Because whatever, they need simple, they need fast, or whatever. But that’s what you want. You want a trusted advisor, not just an executor or implementer. I think that’s such a powerful thing.

Chris Badgett:

You guys are getting into the mobile app space. What’s that like? Tell us more about your mobile app clients.

Speaker 2:

Currently, we experimented with it. That’s the truth. We wouldn’t say that we are totally successful with it up until now, but then we are developing and we are improving on our technology stack, and whatever issues that we have with their apps. We don’t take custom mobile applications as of now. We have our own [inaudible 00:30:25] so once that’s stabile enough, we will be looking at divvying up other e-learning application projects. Because we don’t want to restrict ourselves to just software based mobile app.

Speaker 3:

But we’re seeing a significant amount of interest.

Speaker 2:

There’s a huge demand.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, in the e-learning industry, especially. It’s exactly the opposite when it comes to e-commerce. There is a good reason. When it comes to WooCommerce, nobody wants to actually a site and an app. Reason being that most of these relationships are [inaudible 00:31:08]. But again, much more ingrained and much more engaged in terms of an e-learning application. What happens is students sign up [inaudible 00:31:20] and they stick with the post for more time. That’s the reason why they would want to have a simpler, more accessible system. That’s where the [inaudible 00:31:30] comes in.

Speaker 3:

E-learning as an industry is extremely well-poised to derive the maximum benefit from having their own mobile apps developed, and we actually see a lot of people coming to us asking about out apps. As we kind of [inaudible 00:31:50] our technology stack, it’s just a matter of time that we are tapping into a very, very big industry and a culture, so to say. Our idea is to be able to come up with an offering that is really, rely cost-effective. Because what happens, most of these guys, especially when you’re using WordPress. They don’t come with boatloads of budget. They want to have something. They want to have this functionality, they want to give this value to their students. But they won’t be able to afford a $10,000 setup. They want some much cheaper, and that’s the opportunity that we are trying to provide for.

Speaker 3:

We are seeing some very good traction, but [inaudible 00:32:39] it’s not a simple problem to solve. It is especially more difficult because of a local environment, like WordPress. Okay, what happens [inaudible 00:32:47] comes because the [inaudible 00:32:51] WordPress, especially like [inaudible 00:32:53]. You have [inaudible 00:32:56] giving tremendous functionality, tremendous amount of visual control. That is [inaudible 00:33:04] on the website. The moment you actually have that in a mobile app, all of that html [inaudible 00:33:14] you’re not able to put on a mobile. People are there, and that point of time they get a shock. Oh, sorry, did you mean that this thing is not going to come online mobile app? Oh, but I spend hours doing this. I did this in Elementor, or maybe I used [inaudible 00:33:30], or whatever that is. Okay, but I need that there as well.

Speaker 3:

Now it’s really a research kind of thing in [inaudible 00:33:41], okay, we could get them going with a simple app, like PWA, that is a progressive with that. But then you have item problems, because item doesn’t really support it, and it’s not very, very easy for people to actually get over the problems with the PWA. Or if you go native or hybrid, then there are these formatting problems. There is a learning curve and acceptance curve on the part of the user. That’s where we see some friction, and it’s not because of problems at our end, but it’s just the technology hasn’t really evolved on the mobile side as it has on the web side.

Speaker 2:

Again, when we were thinking of when we had this plan we were going to launch it as … offering, but then we realized that every project, every approach that comes our way is our services project with different needs. Especially the softwares, they interact with so many other plugins, they need support with those plugins, also. Currently, that’s a situation. We have to stop accepting new projects right now because we need to service our existing clients. The opportunity is huge, but at the same time, there are various challenges associated.

Chris Badgett:

Yeah, that’s awesome. Well it’s fun to talk about that, because I’ve kind of seen that as the opportunity as well, but it’s really challenging and there’s a lot of friction. You’ve helped clarify my thinking. I never really compared it to e-commerce, where people just want to get in and get our versus learning is a totally different animal. They’re going to get in, and they’re going to stay in. So it’s different.

Speaker 2:

We chose offline learning, and all that helps a lot. We need to always be connected with the internet.

Chris Badgett:

Even without a mobile app, a WordPress LMS website is a web app. Sometimes I find myself educating people. Yes, you are going to need connection to the internet, but even cellular connection is becoming more and more widespread. And if you want to get into people being able to do stuff offline, you can add downloads and other materials that they can take when they travel, or listen to while they’re doing something else off the internet. Can you tell us a little bit about the origin story of WisdmLabs? How did this company start, and when was this?

Speaker 3:

This company started because I was working in an agency, which was digital marketing agency. They were being bought over by a French company, that I think is the second-largest [inaudible 00:36:24] giant in the world, [inaudible 00:36:28]. When they were being bought over by [inaudible 00:36:31], I realized that my time has come to go and explore the things that I’ve always wanted to explore. The real reason for this is because I always had ideas, but they were always kind of shot down because it was someone else [inaudible 00:36:47] business there [inaudible 00:36:48]. I completely understand that, but I felt like, you know what, what would happen max [inaudible 00:36:53]. It will be [inaudible 00:36:54] okay, but I don’t really want to have that regret at the end of my life like I didn’t [inaudible 00:37:02]. Then I will then be actually cursing my fate, oh, you know what, I did not do this.

Speaker 3:

There are so many things that I always wanted to do. For example, I had this thought that software stays [inaudible 00:37:17]. I want to be in software, and I wanted to help small businesses. Because I have always seen people talking about [inaudible 00:37:26] of the enterprise offer, the enterprise offer. As if no other kind of business like this in the world. I kept wondering, what about the other people? [inaudible 00:37:37] a lot of people around working in enterprises, so I thought what, they’re not living? Are they not enjoying their lives? Are they not [inaudible 00:37:47]? What about them? I’m sure there must be something much simpler than enterprise.

Speaker 3:

That’s where I stumbled across WordPress, and I realized this seems to be that opportunity. WordPress was not that super popular that it is right now, but it was really competing well against [inaudible 00:38:05]. I said, “This looks like a simple system. Okay, why not explore it and see if we can do something over here?” Because I was from a digital marketing services background, services came naturally to me. At that point of time I decided well, let’s get started with services. Obviously, the journey’s [inaudible 00:38:26] very quickly graduated to our own website, because we realized that this is not going to work. It’s going to be much more crowed on the freelancing. From there, you can’t really create any differentiate [inaudible 00:38:40] the customers your value, so we put up our website and we enlisted a lot in content marketing. That’s how we’ve been able to [inaudible 00:38:49] the journey.

Chris Badgett:

What year did WisdmLabs open its doors or get its first client, do you remember?

Speaker 3:

2012. That’s when we started.

Chris Badgett:

Awesome, awesome. Well Rohan and Shreejith from WisdmLabs, I can see another reason why I get along with you guys is focusing on small business, or what I call the VSB, very small business. I know what you mean where sometimes you hear business people talking about advice move up market. Go to the enterprises if it’s the only thing that exists. I’ve never heard somebody say that, but I smiled real big when you said that, because there’s a lot of other people in the world. In fact, most companies are not enterprise or fortune 500 or fortune 1,000, or whatever. Small business is the economic engine of the world. Not that big business isn’t important, but there’s a lot of smaller businesses out there, as well. What’s the best way for somebody to get a hold of you at WisdmLabs?

Speaker 2:

Just go to our website or tweet us, or follow us on any of our [inaudible 00:40:06]. But yes, you will get the most when you go to our website, because that’s when you will actuallY get [inaudible 00:40:12] well if I had the right requirement, then these will be the right people. So yes.

Chris Badgett:

That’s awesome. If you’re looking for a technology partner, go to WisdmLabs.com. That’s W-I-S-D-MLabs.com. Rohan and Shreejith, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Thank you Chris, thanks for inviting us.

Chris Badgett:

And that’s a wrap for this episode of LMScast. I’m your guide, Chris Badgett. I hope you enjoyed the show. This show was brought to you by LifterLMS, the number one tool for creating, selling, and protecting engaging online courses. To help you get more revenue, freedom, and impact in your life, head on over to LifterLMS.com and get the best gear for your course creator journey. Let’s build the most engaging, results-getting courses on the internet.

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