What Makes People Buy Courses with Caleb O’Dowd

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In this LMScast episode, Caleb O’Dowd discussed about marketing tactics, concentrating mainly on how to make sales-boosting deals. Additionally, he shares ways to encourage additional purchases. For those who design courses, serve as coaches, or work for organizations that support them, this is very important.

Caleb O’Dowd is a marketing expert and entrepreneur, author and founder of Multi Channel Marketing. Caleb O’Dowd underlines the need of comprehending the potential objections that clients may have to your product before developing an offer that does away with those issues.

Caleb O'Dowd

He describes this strategy as making a “mafia offer,” which is an offer that is so alluring that it is difficult for anybody to reject.

Additionally, Caleb highlights the need of anticipating objections and tactfully addressing them in your marketing materials. He says that in order to learn more about his target market and efficiently address issues in his offerings, he frequently starts Facebook groups.

When it comes to Facebook advertisements and groups, Caleb advises directing visitors to an email capture page and then utilizing a subsequent email to invite people to the Facebook group.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Badgett: You’ve come to the right place if you’re looking to create, launch, and scale a high value online training program. I’m your guide, Chris Badgett. I’m the co-founder of LifterLMS, the most powerful learning management system for WordPress State of the end, I’ve got something special for you. Enjoy the show.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of L M S Cast. I’m joined by a special guest. His name is Caleb O’Dowd. He’s from multi-channel marketing. Dot com. Welcome to show Caleb.

Caleb O’Dowd: Thank you so much, Chris. It’s a, an honor and a pleasure to be here.

Chris Badgett: I can’t wait for this conversation. We’re going to go deep on marketing, getting leads getting people to buy, getting people to buy more for the course creators, the coaches out there, and also the agencies that support them.

Let’s start at a super high level, Caleb, in your view, what makes people buy or choose you?

Caleb O’Dowd: I think a one of the greatest discoveries that I’ve ever made in my career is shifting my focus away from What makes people buy and moving it over to why would somebody not buy? Because if you understand, if you look at your offer, if you look at your positioning, if you look at your offer, particularly I teach this type of offer.

I call it a mafia offer. A mafia offer is an offer. You cannot refuse if the Don of a mafia family gives you an offer, you can’t refuse it. So I come at the creation of offers from the perspective of why would somebody say no. So if you are if somebody is looking to acquire a customer and you have a solution on how to acquire a customer.

Then at least you’re aligned with what people are looking for. From that point forward, it’s far smarter for you to sit down and think to yourself, why would somebody not buy what it is that I have to offer? Because the answers to those questions, the answer to that question is going to allow you to create an offer that is designed to not get a no.

And if you have an offer that essentially removes all of the reasons why somebody would not buy from you. Then you, the only off, the only choice left on the table is to buy from you. So if anybody here knows me or has heard of me or anybody who has studied any of my customer acquisition, advertising, you will know that I create mafia offers.

I create offers that are designed to not get a no. And as a result. I’m pretty much known particularly in the webinar industry for creating some of the most successful and highest grossing webinar offers in that industry. And it’s because I come at the question a little differently.

I try and think about why would somebody say no? Then I create a solution that definitively overcomes that no. So now my offer. Eliminates that. No, because there’s so many people that come at the creation of an offer from the perspective of, let me just put lots of stuff into the offer so that I end up with 50, 000 worth of value that you can get for a thousand dollars.

But people don’t buy because of that people buy because they need. Like fast unique, simple solutions that make it like make getting to the end result fast and easy. So your offer really is supposed to be designed to eliminate all the reasons why someone would say no, and get your prospect to the place of enjoying.

The end result as fast as humanly possible. And a lot of the offers that I review for my clients, they’re the opposite of that. The, prospect might look at your offer and say, Hey, this is really great I’m not going to sign up because of like I’m in the advertising space.

So somebody might say, Hey, I’m not going to sign up because I don’t know how to create ads. And if I say, oh, okay look, I’m going to give you this book, my latest book, how I went from zero to generating. Like millions of dollars. That bonus doesn’t really overcome that objection that someone has.

So by stacking value, which is what I see a lot of people doing, it doesn’t really get the sale. What you really want to do instead is you want to find out why would that person say no. In this example, the person would say, no, I’m not going to order because I don’t know how to create ads. I changed my offer to say, Oh, by the way, I’m going to create all of your ads for you.

In this example, I’m talking about one of my offers. So now that person doesn’t have that objection anymore. And as a result, legions, more people buy my offer. So why do people buy? I think it’s going to be the, one of the greatest discoveries I ever made in my career that have resulted in literally me creating some enormously successful offers in hyper competitive niches.

The question that I gravitate towards more so these days is why would somebody not buy? Because if I know the answer to that, then I know how to create an offer that is stronger than every other offer in the marketplace. I don’t know if that was the answer you were expecting there, Chris, but that’s where I come.

That’s how I come at that issue.

Chris Badgett: I love that. Is there any subtle differences to the way… How people would not buy that you would say to the kind of the classic sales training on, Oh you need to handle the objections like somewhere, like, how is this different from objection handling?

Caleb O’Dowd: Yeah, I the first and like the, absolute best way to handle objections is to know about them in advance you’re not dealing with these things on the fly. There’s so many different types of objections that people could have based on what it is that you are selling. So the first thing that we like. Do a lot of there’s several things that we do to get really smart on things.

Number one, if I’m getting into a new niche, or if I really want to become like very successful in a niche, I’ll usually create some Facebook ads, create a Facebook group, and I’ll put about 500 people in the niche into that group. I’ll drip content on them and I’ll ask them every question under the sun and I will attempt to get all of the objections, all of the insight that I can get from that tribe of people as fast as humanly possible.

So that when it comes time for me to actually sell, I’m so up to speed that my offer contains. Rebuttals to all of the major objections so that by the time I actually get to close the person. There’s very few objections on the call. They’re more so minor type of like objections like in my world, I get like the most common thing that I get is Hey I, we do a lot of live trainings.

I can’t attend the live trainings on that at that time. So there are more minor objections because I’ve done all the work to overcome the major objections in the actual advertising itself. And that comes from being super well prepared. It becomes, it comes from really understanding your prospect at a very, high level.

And Taking the time to figure out what the objections are and creating an advertisement that systematically and strategically overcomes them so that there’s no really no bumps on the road to taking out the credit card and buying. So I tend to address those issues long before they arrive.

Best case scenario. And one of the ways that I do that is I, create a Facebook group. I get exactly my prospect in there, about 500 of them. Asked him a ton of questions. I figure everything out and I get to know them intimately. A lot of what I will do as well is I will create A group using traffic sources that I ultimately intend to use to sell so that the people that are coming from those traffic sources.

I actually know those people. I know what they’re interested in. So that when I comes back time for me to create my offer, I have created an offer that’s customized to those traffic sources, which gives me again a higher likelihood of succeeding.

Chris Badgett: That’s awesome. A quick tactical question. You mentioned Facebook ads and Facebook groups.

I may be wrong here, but I think you can’t do an ad that points directly to a Facebook ad that points to a group. So how did you, let me understand how you think about that and how do you fill the group?

Caleb O’Dowd: Very simple. Just send them straight to an email capture page. And then on the thanks page, you have a little two minute video that moves them into the group.

Then you have them on email, and then you’re just moving them into the group from email from that point forward.

Chris Badgett: Brilliant. So you are using the ad to build a group. They’re just going through an opt in first and you handle the actual like button to join the group on the thank you page or in the reply or the confirmation email or whatever.


Caleb O’Dowd: Exactly.

Chris Badgett: That is cool. And you mentioned multiple traffic sources to like the same traffic sources to build the group is the ones that you would use to sell to later. Can you elaborate on what those traffic sources are or what types of.

Caleb O’Dowd: Yeah on Facebook, we do a lot of it depends which niche we’re in but like on Facebook, like we do, we do a lot of advertising on Facebook, primarily for the niches that we operate in.

On Facebook, a lot of actually the, advertising is moved away from. Targeting specific interests on Facebook, and it’s more so about teaching the pixel to bring you back exactly who you’re looking for. But we do interest targeting. We might target a guru. We might target a specific topic.

Might target a specific page and stuff like that. But what I will do is I’ll go out and research all of the interests where it’s clear that my prospect should be there. And I will also rely on training the pixel a lot to bring me back exactly who I’m looking for all of those people from those audiences are coming into my group, and I’m getting to know people from those traffic sources.

So I, find out what their problems are. There’s, essentially. There’s essentially eight things that I want to know about every prospect before I get into creating a piece of winning advertising. The first and foremost thing that I want to know is what is the seed reason why they’re in the niche?

What caused… What happened in their life that caused them to want to be in this niche? Because if you know that, then you know the driving force of what’s actually going on in their head. You know the core reason why they’re here. What it is, what is it that they’re trying to actually accomplish? Every one of us had some stuff that happened in our life that caused us to embark upon This endeavor.

Okay. So what is that? Because if I know that I can tell you from experience nine out of 10 of my competition, do not know that. And that allows me to speak in a very penetrating manner to the people that I’m serving. And it makes them feel like, wow, Caleb knows me more than anybody else that I’ve ever encountered here.

This guy really, knows me deeply. So number one, I want to know what is the seed reason why they’re here? What happened in their life that caused them to want to be here? Number two, I want to know their dilemma. What is the rock and a hard place that they’re caught between right now? What’s going on in their life right now that is, causing them pain?

Where are they stuck? What is the issue that’s, causing them to be in pain or causing them to search for a solution? What is the issue that is the stone in the shoe for them right now? Those two things are very, important, really, in my experience, not worth moving forward with any level of advertising or spending a penny on advertising until at least those two things from there.

Then it boils down into classic kind of Tony Robbins psychology. Human beings take action for two primary reasons the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain. So in the category of the desire for pleasure, there is three reasons why people are taking action. They have a want, they have a need, and they have a desire.

So I want to know what is the wants, what are their needs, what are their desires? Then on the pain side of things, the avoidance of, pain side of things, there’s again three categories, and that is fears. Frustrations and problems. So I’ll spend pretty much 60 days, 90 days talking to these 500 people or so.

And I’ll want to find out what’s the seed reason why you’re here. What is the dilemma that you’re experiencing in your life right now that’s causing you pain. And then I want to know your wants, needs, desires, fears, frustrations, and problems. Once I know those eight things. Then I have essentially figured out everything that I need to know to create at that point in time, elite level marketing and advertising that positions me very powerfully in the marketplace, because more so than any tactic or strategy if you are able to speak to your prospect in a way that makes them realize that me better.

Then anyone I’ve ever spoken to about a solution here, you’ll get the

Chris Badgett: business. It’s as simple as that. I love that framework. Can you dig in a little bit on why these people would want to join? What’s their motivation to join the group as you’re going there and you’re sussing out these eight factors.

But why, what compels them to opt in and join the group? Like, why do they want to join a group, a Facebook group?

Caleb O’Dowd: You can rest assured that like a lot of the the reason why they would be interested is inherent. In the niche itself. So if you are if you wanna lose weight, if you are a prospect in the diet niche, you’d be very interested in joining a group that you know is going to be a educational slash support group on how to lose weight.

If you are a coach or a consultant, you would be very interested in joining an educational slash support group that would teach you all about how to generate clients and become a successful coach or consultant. And it goes on along those lines. Depending on the nature of the niche, I will just create a very simple land.

It just talks about hey, putting together a community of dieters, we’re putting together a community. Coaches were putting together a community of affiliate marketers, whatever dog owners, Labrador, dog owners, and going to be sharing a lot of like secrets and tactics and strategies, which I do.

It’s not just about getting them in there and asking them a bunch of questions about getting them in there, educating them and giving them value. Supporting them, finding out what’s the challenges that they’re having, like getting into dialogue a lot of the, challenges that I see with struggling marketers on the internet, whether you’re a coach or, whatever it may be, we’re all internet marketers at some level, one of the biggest challenges that I see, and maybe said another way, one of the biggest holes in everybody’s game is just how disconnected we are from understanding the people that we serve.

If you’re not having, especially early on, if you’re not having, if you’re not entering into daily dialogue with your prospects and potentially customers, if you have them, then how in how would you expect to to, know enough about the people you serve to.

So it’s about getting into conversation, it’s about jumping on Facebook lives, jumping on zoom calls asking questions, sharing value, getting into dialogue as the more dialogue you can get into with your prospects and customers, the more empowered you will be to succeed, because you can rest assured that the vast majority of people on the internet Fact, vast majority of marketers do not do this stuff.

And that’s why the vast majority of marketers really don’t make a lot of money and they don’t grow businesses that are very successful. It’s because they’re entirely disconnected from who their their, customers are. I don’t want to harp on too much about this, but I have a really, good, short little story to emphasize the power of this here.

I had a client. Who got into this was a few years back, got into the paleo diet niche and built up this Facebook group and was attempting to sell paleo related foods on Amazon as an affiliate and no one was buying. Came to me and he was like, I just can’t figure it out. Like I built this group.

It’s a paleo diet group. Paleo dieters need to eat paleo foods. I’m like promoting paleo foods. No one is buying the paleo foods. Like I just can’t figure it out. And I said why do you think that they’re why do you think they want to buy paleo foods? And he’s it’s obvious around the paleo diet.

Paleo dieters need to eat paleo related foods. You can’t eat non paleo related foods and be on the paleo diet. I said, look the answer here is you need to get into dialogue with these people. And I empowered him with a, like a whole bunch of questions there and reported back in a couple of weeks and he was like, Oh man, you’re never going to believe it.

I said, what? He said, they’re all brand new to the paleo diet. They’re not even on the paleo diet. They’re wanting to learn. What is the paleo diet? They don’t even know what it is. I targeted a group of beginners that don’t even they, want to be on the paleo diet, but they don’t know anything about it.

They don’t know what foods they should be eating. They don’t know how the diet works in particular. And I said, wow, that’s very insightful because of course they’re not going to buy paleo foods. If they don’t even know what foods they should be eating, they don’t even know what paleo meals they should be eating.

And this is a story that is representative of so much marketing that’s going on these days. People have assumptions. They make assumptions. They think, Oh, this is what I project to be the reality of what this other person is thinking, what this other person is going through, but the prospect on the receiving end of your advertising and your marketing and your strategy is like, what is this person talking about?

This is not relevant to me at all. And you really have to. You really have to get past that. You really have to get clear on who your prospect is, what’s going on with them, so that you’re aligned with and talking about and offering solutions to exactly what it is that they really need.

And I can tell you that This stuff gives the inexperienced marketer a competitive advantage over very experienced marketers, because even the very experienced marketers don’t actually have a lot of this information. And this stuff matters more than a lot of the other stuff, like a lot of savvy marketers have bells and whistles and everything looks great and everything, but actually you can.

You can compete with those guys if you focus in on this stuff. If you get to know your prospect intimately and you take the time to deeply understand with great clarity those eight things. Because the conversation that you will have with your prospect, once you know those eight things, your words will land like lightning in the hearts and souls of the people you’re communicating with.

And you can rest assured that no other competitor’s words in the niche will land as powerfully as

Chris Badgett: yours. Amazing. Whoever’s closest to the customer wins as I like to say. Fabulous. Same. And the, other thing of you know, don’t build the product you want to build. Like it’s for them, it’s all about them.

It’s not about you and your experts. Exactly. Whatever, .

Caleb O’Dowd: Exactly. I love it. We’ll come back

Chris Badgett: to marketing. I want to come go shift over to product a little bit. Yeah. So like high ticket offer construction. Let’s imagine that we’ve. We know the seed inciting thing that wants them to join this niche or, get involved in this niche.

We figured out their dilemma. We’ve got their their pleasure, their desires or wants their needs and their fears, frustrations, and problems figured out. And we have a short offer statement, like an elevator pitch. Like I held this type of person overcome this pain and achieve this. Outcome.

How do we build a high ticket offer? Something that’s over five or $10,000 a year or whatever versus a $30 course or a hundred dollars course or a thousand dollars course. Like what? How do we construct the high ticket version? What would be in it?

Caleb O’Dowd: Yeah it boils down to really like the, if you can imagine there’s a line from left to right, and that line is the journey from where your prospect is right now on the left painville, as an example, and all the way on the right is solutionville.

So the more money you charge, there’s many ways to think about this. And what I’m about to say is most certainly not the definitive way of, thinking about this, but it is a very powerful way to think about this that, absolutely creates incredible solutions. And that is the more money you charge, the faster.

Your offer should get them from where they are paying bill to solution bill number one, and the more money you charge, the less responsibility should be placed on your customer’s shoulders, and the more should be placed on your own. So I’ll give you a great example of this. I have an offer where I teach people how to get high ticket clients using short I call them mini groups.

These are Facebook groups that they’re just alive for 12 days. They exist for 12 days, they’re switched on and then they’re turned off. And during that period of time, all kinds of wizardry takes place that acquires high ticket clients. So I could create a 500. I could create a book. Okay. I could create a book, sell it for 7, 10, 20 bucks, and it would tell you the strategy I could then charge 500 for a video training that would show you essentially how to go and implement this all on your own.

Then I could create a two and a half thousand dollar or a three thousand dollar six week group coaching training program that would not only show you how to go and implement it, but actually give you the support. That you need all of the Q and a all of the problem solving on live calls that you need in order to assist you in implementing yourself.

I could then I could then create a solution where I would charge you 5000. whereby you get your own mentor that will like jump on the phone and be available to you each week and guide you through the process of on a one to one basis, implementing it yourself. Or else I could go and charge you 000 and I would have my team of people do it all for you. So the difference between the book versus the 10 or 20, 000 completely done for you service is the book. It’s 100 percent your responsibility to take action. On the book. It’s your responsibility. It’s entirely up to you. You’re left alone.

You got to figure it out. You got the information. No more for me. The 000 solution. It’s entirely on me. I’m going to build it for you. Going to get you there in the fastest time possible. I’m going to remove all of the risk, all of the commitment, all of the obligation from your shoulders, and I’m going to apply it on my own.

I am going to, I’m going to take it on board myself. So that is one kind of linear way to think about it. Creating your own solutions there. And the various different types of, price points that you can and should charge for various degrees of service and solutions there.

That might not always be relevant to a lot of different people, but if you go niche by niche, the answer can it can change radically. Based on what’s being sold, but at least that’s a good kind of general guideline.

Chris Badgett: That’s awesome. Let’s come back to marketing. What is multi channel marketing?

Caleb O’Dowd: Multi channel marketing is essentially this concept that. The more ways that you have to communicate with the people you serve, the more penetration, the more attention you can gather around your advertising, but also the more importance that you can assign to your message. So let’s just talk about what is multi channel marketing.

Multi channel marketing is essentially. different modalities, different ways in which you can get in contact with your tribe. So you can have an email list. If you have a thousand people on your email list, as an example then you send them an email. Really good result is that you might get 200 of those thousand people, 20 percent to open your email.

If you’re promoting an offer, then out of that 200 people who opened your email, maybe let’s just make it up. Maybe 50 people saw your actual offer. So out of, from an email perspective, 50 people saw your offer. Okay. So that’s, if that’s all you had, then you just had 50 people see your offer. Now let’s say you send them an SMS.

Now, 70 percent of people will potentially open your SMS, maybe that’s 700 people open your SMS, maybe now 200 people of the 200 of those people will go through and see your offer. So now you have 250 people that have seen your offer. Let’s say you had all of their home addresses.

Let’s say you took. Your offer, put it into a, printed direct mail sales letter and you mailed it to their homes. Now you have essentially 900 people that would open that and directly see your offer. So now you’ve essentially got, because of multi channel marketing, you started off with 50, but now you’ve gotten your message into the hands of 900 people.

So now because of multi channel marketing, you’ve gotten a much greater reach and it’s just three channels we use. Many channels. We use ringless voicemail, direct mail, outbound telephone calls, SMS email chat we use I can’t even think of the model. We use loads of them so that anytime we promote something.

Chris Badgett: Social media as well, of course. Social

Caleb O’Dowd: media. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Retargeting unit. So now when we promote something, not only are we getting maximum reach into our audience beyond the scope of what a single channel could get us. We’re getting our offer into the hands of the maximum quantity of people in our audience.

But because we’re coming at them from so many different ways, they get an email, then they get an SMS, then they get a phone call, then they get a voicemail left on their answering machine. Then our ads are following them around the internet. Then when they go online, our Facebook posts is there then they go to and we’re everywhere.

So what happens is people start to realize is this compounding effect. Oh my gosh, this is really important. Very few people understand that just how difficult it is to penetrate a person’s mind. Somebody might open an email, but that doesn’t mean that they’ve paid one bit of attention to anything you said in that email.

That doesn’t mean that they have paid attention, that they’ve read it, that they even know what you’re talking about. So if you come at it from all of these various different ways. You’re hitting people at different times in different ways when they have different levels of attention span and there’s this compounding nature to it.

And as a result, it’s been definitively and unquestionably proven. To be more effective by multitudes of response to do this stuff. And I feel like more so than any other time in history, it’s more needed now than ever before, because the level of advertising is particularly on the internet.

Is so astronomically high that people are literally just becoming immune to it. Just like furniture in your living room. You just don’t pay attention to it anymore. It’s there, but you have, you’re just so accustomed to it that you don’t even pay attention to it anymore. That’s what advertising has become on the internet.

So a lot of what we’re doing here is we’re trying to get people in many ways off the internet. You send somebody. If you, excuse me, if you send a direct mail sales letter to somebody, it’s a very different experience than an email you have to, somebody has gone to their letterbox, they’ve picked something up.

It’s tactical. It’s visceral. They’re holding it and they’re looking at it. And they’re involved in the experience. That’s very different to seeing a retargeting ad or getting an email on the internet where it is like a hundred flashing things going on, same with a a post on social media or something trying to get impact with people and that’s really what multi channel marketing is to me.

We use multi channel marketing to optimize our customer acquisition to optimize our customer monetization and to acquire customers in a multitude of different ways, because we have just literally found that to be significantly by many. multitudes greater than doing it any other way.

Chris Badgett: A quick tactical question for you, Caleb, how do we get the phone number and particularly the, mailing address, the direct, or the to put a letter in the mail, how do we get those things?

Caleb O’Dowd: Phone number is very easy. It depends how you are acquiring leads as an example. But a lot of what we do, it’s interesting I moved away from lead magnets because they used to be for me very ineffective. And all of these years later, I’m now back using lead magnets because they’re the most effective.

And it’s not that the lead magnet is effective in and of itself. It’s that how I use the lead magnet is very powerful. And that’s a great potential. I don’t know how much time we have here, Chris, but that’s a very interesting topic. That’s time. We’ll go there. I use lead magnets to acquire leads and on the opt in I give people the opportunity to give me their phone number to have the lead magnet delivered to their phone so that they can read it on their phone.

And I get about 86 percent of people giving me their telephone number that way. I how to get someone’s direct mail. Primarily I only want. A buyer’s home address. I only want a buyer’s home address. A lead is not qualified enough for me to invest in sending them a direct mail package, but a buyer is.

And one of the things that we teach people to do is anyone who buys from you. Send them a gift and usually what we do is we gift them like a hat. And so if you buy something from me on the confirmation page there’d be a little box. Hey surprise gift. We want to send you we want to send you like a really cool hat and a really nice welcome aboard package and enter your address there.

We will then. Follow up on email with that. We usually get again, interestingly enough, about 86 89 percent of people giving us their home address. We don’t need to do that. The only reason we do that because we capture their home address anyway on the order form. The only reason we do that is because we want to confirm their mailing address.

is the same as perhaps maybe their billing address. But anytime someone orders from you, you should capture their address so that you have it. And then what we do is we send them a little package with a hat in it. In my case, the hat says alchemist, and I have a little one page letter that talks about hey, what you’re about to discover here for me is, the fine art of alchemy taking raw materials and turning it into gold. And I have this really nice letter and along with that hat and that little welcome letter is an eight page sales letter that sells them on my, like my highest level service. That is extremely powerful and extremely effective.

And from that point forward, then I have their home addresses.

Chris Badgett: Let’s go back into the lead magnet. You left them, you’re back, tell us how you use them. And you’ve got a great one on your site at multichannelmarketing. com. I was looking at that as you were talking, I saw how you get the email and the phone number.

Caleb O’Dowd: That is, that’s a very different type of lead magnet per a completely different strategy. But the, cold traffic. advertising strategy for acquiring leads that I employ. I figured out a long time ago. And again, another major discovery for me and everything that we do here is that not everyone in the niche is a buyer.

Very important thing for everybody to understand. It might seem obvious, but it’s, the devil is in the detail. I would go as far as saying that perhaps nine out of 10 people in the niche are non buyers. They’re either never going to buy, or they’re just not in a mentality right now. So, important for you to understand that because a lot of people, how they generate leads is they go out and they cast the widest net.

They try and get everyone back in and the metric that they use to measure their success is cost per lead. And if you’re getting a really low cost per lead, you’re doing great. And if you’re getting a high cost per lead, you’re not doing great. That’s that’s really the wrong way to go about it.

What I figured out is that it’s really only about 10 percent of people in your niche that are ready to buy now. That’s the only quantity of people that I want to pay money to make my offers to. I only want the 10 percent of people who have two things. Number one, they have the money. And number two, they have the intent to spend it.

So if I only target people who have money in the intent to spend it, and that’s the only people that I bring into my business and present my offers to and no one else, then the likelihood of me generating sales skyrockets, absolutely skyrockets. My conversion rates go through the roof. So the question then becomes then how do you use lead magnets to essentially do two jobs.

Number one, I view it as like the bouncer at the door you want to, keep the riff raff out and you want to let all the cool kids in. So I look at my lead magnets in that way. I want my lead magnet to do two things. I want it to exclusively attract people with money and the intent to spend it.

On exactly the type of solution that I’m looking for that I have to offer that’s job number one and then job number two. I want that lead magnet to repel everyone else. And how I do that within my world is I do it essentially around three. strategies. Number one I do it around a financial qualifier.

I actually I’m using this example lately because it’s just such a brilliant example, but I do the same just in a different way. There’s a marketer out there who teaches people how to invest in luxury watches. And his ad says, if you have 5, 000, a smartphone and you live near a post office, I can show you how to invest in luxury watches.

And essentially what he’s done is he said, this offer is only for people that have 5, 000. If you don’t have 5, 000, then no point signing up. Because this is completely irrelevant to you. So the people that are broke, the people that don’t have any money, the people that don’t have an intent to spend or invest 5, 000, they’re not signing up for that, but the guys that have 5, 000 that have the intention to invest it and are interested in the topic, those people sign up and not only do those people sign up, they sign up with a buyer mentality.

They’re saying, yeah, I’ve got five grand and I’m willing to invest it in. In learning how to invest in luxury watches. So when that guy makes an offer, I’ll show you how to invest in luxury watches, and here’s how much it costs, that person is significantly more likely to buy. That’s a financial qualifier.

I use financial qualifiers in almost everything I do to acquire leads. I’m always teaching people how to make financial investments and get a return on those on that financial investments. Therefore, anyone that I attract into my tribe is somebody. Who has agreed that they have that money to make that financial investment.

So now I’m targeting, I’m only making my offers to people that have that money, have an interest in what I have to offer and therefore have an intention to purchase. And my conversion rates go through the roof doing that. And yes, it’s true. My cost per lead is a little higher. But my conversion rates are massive in comparison to what they are.

If I’m getting leads for two bucks a pop and no one is buying I also I tend to target people who clearly have money like I have a client who is gives investment advice and we talked about the very best prospect for that person for him to target.

And the very best prospect for him to target is accredited investors. So if you create a lead magnet targeting accredited investors is someone that has significant disposable income to invest. So if you’re targeting someone who Like it’s evident that person has money and because they’re accredited investor and they’re interested in making investments with the money that they have, then if you create a lead magnet specifically targeting those people, then of course you’ve got someone who has money and the intent in this case to investors.

Again, conversion rates go through the roof. The third way that I come at this is depending on the niche. Like I’ll give you a really great example. The weight loss niche. Weight loss niche is a vast niche and a tremendous amount of those people are not buyers and, or else tremendous amount of those people just don’t really don’t have the money or they’re on lower income.

They’re in a lower income bracket. So can’t really target them. You can’t like it doesn’t make sense to target like a rich overweight person, so to speak and it doesn’t make sense to use a financial qualifier to target them either. In that case, what we do is we say, look, what is it that we know that these people are spending money on?

What do we know for sure that these people are spending money on? We definitely know as an example that they’re buying weight loss supplements. We know that for sure, We can. It’s a billion dollar industry. If you go to any Walgreens, any CVS, weight loss pills one of the biggest selling health supplement categories in the planet.

So we know. that dieters are buying weight loss supplements. We also know that dieters are buying diet books because we just know, it’s again, one of the biggest selling book categories on the planet is, diet books. So if we’re to create lead magnets around a diet pill, as an example I have an example of a lead magnet.

That the, whole concept for the lead magnet is the number one most highly rated weight loss diet pill for brides to be who need to lose weight on time for their special day. So anyone who signs up for that? Yeah, that’s a buyer, right? That’s someone who says, I want a diet pill. I know diet pills cost money.

I have that money and I have the intent to buy it. So now that person, you’re not attracting a prospect. You’re not attracting any old person. You’re attracting a buyer, someone who has buyer intent. So I moved away from lead magnets long ago because I was doing the whole checklist. Yeah, checklists are good, just not for this.

They’re good for I use checklists, as in the website there, but it’s, for warm traffic. It’s for people that are warmed up in that case. What I’m trying to do is capture the most amount of warmed up people humanly possible, but that’s a very different strategy to going after a cold lead that doesn’t know me from Adam.

So when I’m going after a cold lead that doesn’t know me from Adam. I only want to have people who have the money and the intent to spend it. I only want people with buyer intent and the cash to buy joining my my email list. Is that a very long winded response there?

Chris Badgett: I like that. We’re running out on time, but I would love to get your thoughts quickly on just some ideas around closing these leads.

Maybe just coming out together with a strategy we can do like sales letters, we can do calls, we can do webinars, but at a high level, what do we need to do to close these qualified leads that we’re getting?

Caleb O’Dowd: Everything.

Chris Badgett: Yeah. Multi channel closing.

Caleb O’Dowd: Everything. The thing about it is, that marketing.

Is not an event. It’s a never ending parade. And you’ve got to be relentless. You’ve got to be relentless.

Chris Badgett: What’s the name of your book? Is it out yet? Or it’s almost out.

Caleb O’Dowd: It’s not out yet. It’s not out yet, but it’s, coming here shortly, but we’re recording this August of 23.

Chris Badgett: So if you’re watching this later, it might be out.

It’s relentless, but go ahead.

Caleb O’Dowd: So the, whole idea is that. You must understand that the vast majority of people are not paying attention to anything you’re doing, and therefore you need to hit them, you need to hit them with a VSL, you need to hit them with a webinar, you need to hit them with a free report that goes to a video sales letter you need to, we do mini groups, you need to get them into mini groups, you need to send them direct mail you cannot view your marketing as an event.

It’s not any one thing. It’s a collection of repeated attempts. So as long as you are like, I have never ever, seen money problems with stand the relentless onslaught of offer making. So you must understand if you’re not making offers, you’re sinking. The more offers you make, the more different ways you reposition what you’re doing the more ways you deliver your sales message, the more money you’re going to make.

It’s as simple as that. You’ve got to have a relentless attitude. There is there’s no one thing. Of course we could talk about any one of those things, but, you know what you want and I’ll tell you something from enormous like experience as well been doing this for 19 years the what you want is a is an automated.

Monetization machine so that every time someone joins your tribe, they go through at a minimum, 90 days of automated offer making. You’ve got emails going out, SMS is going out. Think of it as an auto responder. You’ve got to have, you need to be making offers. Every day, every week, because if you’re not, and you need to be doing it via giving value, it’s not just about relentlessly and aggressively advertising to people.

That’s not it at all. You need to be giving value, giving solutions, making offers, being cool, building a relationship, fostering a bond with the people that you serve, but constantly selling all the time. Because if you’re not doing that you can rest assured that your people are buying from someone else.

Chris Badgett: Let me ask you a question from our audience here that’s live on the call. Angela, who’s a LifterLMS customer. She helps house cleaners start and grow their company. She has a huge YouTube channel, but she’s asking when you say relentless marketing, are you talking paid or organic? I know she’s really good at organic through YouTube.

I’m not sure what her situation is with paid traffic, but what do you recommend in terms of a mix between organic and paid?

Caleb O’Dowd: I do very little organic and almost exclusively paid. So

Chris Badgett: when you see somebody who’s, good at organic marketing, what do you think, or do you see like, missed opportunity on the paid side or what do you see?

Caleb O’Dowd: I see first of all. It’s fabulous. There’s there’s if you’re doing organic traffic and you’re succeeding and you’re growing your business and you’re making good money, then there ain’t nothing wrong with that. You’re kicking arse and taking names. Right now, with that said, you.

What you can accomplish in a year with organic traffic, you could probably accomplish in a month with paid traffic at a tenth of the effort. So it requires the same level of blood, sweat, tears, savvy, and trial and error to make organic traffic work as it does to make paid traffic work. I really don’t.

You’re, talking to somebody and the question is Hey, what do you like more apples or oranges for me? I like apples more. I like paid traffic more because paid traffic is scalable. It’s reliable. I’m in total control of my own growth. I’m not an organic traffic person, but that doesn’t mean that there’s a problem with organic traffic.

If you’re smart, smarter than me, you would have organic traffic and paid traffic working for you. But most certainly paid traffic is where I choose to specialize. I have a lot of experience doing that. And you want to be acquiring customers in multiple channels, but once you have prospects and customers in your ecosystem in your business, you want to be making those people relentless offers just more and more offers.

That’s really what it’s all about. At the end of the day, this business, if you can take a page and draw a line down north to south on the page title, the left column acquisition title, the right column monetization, internet marketers have completely and utterly forgot about monetization. They think the entire business is all about acquisition.

But where all of the money is, in the monetization. It’s in making repeated offers to new and existing prospects and customers. You will make significantly more profit by making more and more offers to existing prospects and customers than you will on acquiring new customers, so internet marketers have forgotten all about monetization.

They’ve forgotten what it’s like to Fully monetize an email list and fully monetize an audience and make relentless offers to those people. Because that’s where all the money is. You make very little money acquiring the customer, if any money at all, but you make a lot of money monetizing existing customers and prospects.

Chris Badgett: Significant. I love the saying my friend Dan Martell says you get bored of your marketing before your market ever does. So just because you’ve made the offer a million times or. Several times doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be making it all the time.

Caleb O’Dowd: I, was speaking at webinar con last, I don’t know, anyway, a while back.

And I used the case study there. I created an offer, wrote a VSL, mailed it to an email list that I have. I made 150, 000, I repositioned that exact same offer. 12 more times and generated 1. 9 million in doing so. The 12th time, I made the exact same offer, just repositioned. I made more money the 12th time than I made the very first time.

Chris Badgett: Which is counterintuitive. Yeah, that’s awesome. Completely

Caleb O’Dowd: counterintuitive. Now I repositioned that offer. It started with a VSL. I then turned it into a webinar. I then turned it into a free report that went to a VSL. Then I did a mini group around it. Then I made a direct mail package around it.

So I, I repositioned and represented that offer in new and unique ways so that it was 12 unique. Presentations of precisely the same offer, but this idea that you need 101 products to build out a back end. It’s not true at all.

Chris Badgett: One quick question from Angela is if she’s new to paid traffic, which platform in 2023 is the best platform to put your money on it?

And she’s on YouTube and she’s serving house cleaners. Small business owner, house cleaner types.

Caleb O’Dowd: It’s, a combination of two things. Number one, it’s a combination of what the first and most important. is you, go where your, people are. I don’t know anything about house cleaners.

I actually had a discussion with my wife. My wife was like, I can’t believe how busy house cleaners are where we live. You need to go where the house cleaners are, wherever they’re hanging out. If it’s Facebook or YouTube or somewhere else, that’s where you need to go. And the second answer.

Then is you really, it’s about figuring out your speciality if you’re really good with video and you’re really comfortable being on video, then, and YouTube is where you can find all of your your, cleaners. And that’s a great place. I specialize in Facebook, but we do YouTube.

We do plenty of various different traffic sources. We do a lot of JV and stuff. I love Facebook for my niche. I just find it to be the fastest, simplest, easiest way to drive traffic. So you, Facebook is my go to. For my particular niches, but it’s really about first and foremost, where is your prospect best reached?

And from there, then it’s about getting clear on do you have any specific. Skills that lend themselves better to one platform versus the other.

Chris Badgett: She’s already crushing it on YouTube organically. They probably start there and there might be a, some experimentation on Facebook as well.


Caleb O’Dowd: Yeah. Yeah. If you’re getting your customers and your prospects from YouTube and that’s working for you, then that’s where you should double down on.

Chris Badgett: Awesome. That’s Caleb O’Dowd. He’s at multichannelmarketing. com. Go check out the website. Any other ways for people to connect with you and, things they should know about you before we go?


Caleb O’Dowd: I don’t know what they should know about me, but if this was enlightening, then you can join my tribe and hear more of my mess on multichannelmarketing. com.

Chris Badgett: Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show, Caleb and dropping. Thanks so much for having me, Chris.

Caleb O’Dowd: Really appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Chris Badgett: And that’s a wrap for this episode of LMS cast. Did you enjoy that episode? Tell your friends and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss the next episode. And I’ve got a gift for you over at LifterLMS. com forward slash gift. Go to LifterLMS. com forward slash gift. Keep learning, keep taking action, and I’ll see you in the next episode.

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