This episode of LMScast with Chris Badgett of LifterLMS is about the online education results revolution with business metnor Adam Urbanski. Adam is from a website called TheMarketingMentors.com, and he is the coach’s coach. He teaches people how to create a business out of their expertise in a particular area.
In this episode we talk about the counter-intuitive insight of creating high-end done for you or done with you offers. Chris and Adam discuss the results revolution and being very selective of the people that join your platform. They also talk about making the transition from a high-end done with you offer to a course that is scalable.
Adam works with entrepreneurial service professionals who are really good at something. They generally love changing people’s lives, relationships, or businesses, but they are not very good at turning that into a business. So Adam serves as a business mentor for experts.
Chris and Adam discuss the current state of schooling and how that system tends to fail people by not teaching them what is necessary to succeed in the economy. People are taught to learn a set of rules and follow those rules universally. But we live in a results economy, meaning that getting results is what people are primarily looking for. The formula for getting results in the economy is changing all of the time, so by the time you learn the established rules you are supposed to follow, those rules have changed and no longer apply. Problem solving skills are what enable you to succeed in the economy today, and the education system often does not teach people how to solve problems and be resourceful.
As an entrepreneur or business owner, the ticket to winning is accepting absolute responsibility for everything. When you accept this level of responsibility, you can see much more clearly where the complications are in your business plan. You also learn how to ask more of the right questions, and Chris and Adam discuss the value of asking the right questions. Most of the time these are big picture questions that are rooted in what you as the course creator can do to fix a problem.
In order to create effective training you have to be able to consistently, predictably, systematically, and profitably produce results. If you start out with a done for you or done with you service in business, then you will be able to polish up your system for solving the common problem your clients have and then turn that into a scalable course. Chris and Adam talk about this strategy and how it has proved to be effective in the online education landscape.
To learn more about Adam Urbanski you can find him on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/adammurbanski. You can also check out TheMarketingMentors.com
You can post comments and subscribe to our newsletter for updates, developments, and future episodes of LMScast. Thank you for joining us.
Episode Transcript
Chris Badgett: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of LMScast. My name is Chris Badgett, and today we’ve got a special guest, Adam Urbanski. He’s from a website called TheMarketingMentors.com and Adam is the coach’s coach and we’re gonna get into a whole new way to look at learning and where the opportunity is and we’re gonna get into what Adam calls the results revolution, which is something I’m super passionate about, and I cannot wait to unpack his intense focus on results and what’s going on in the coaching and learning industry these days. But, first, Adam, I want to thank you for coming on the show.
Adam Urbanski: Chris, thanks for having me and man, you said coach’s coach, and I kind of cringed. I prefer to be mentor’s mentor. But I’ll go with the coach’s coach.
Chris Badgett: Right on. Yeah, I’m all about mentoring, I’m actually in the process right now, I’ve been searching actually for years for a mentor in my life and maybe we can talk a little bit about mentoring too and how you see that. I mentor a couple people myself but, I’ve just had the darnedest time trying to find a mentor for me but, before we get into any of that and the rest of the show, for the people out there that don’t know you yet, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, Adam?
Adam Urbanski: Man, it’s always one of the toughest questions, in fact, the reason I’m in this business today is because I hated answering that question. If someone asked early on, I left the restaurant industry, sold the restaurant business and got into consulting and coaching, people always asked, “What do you do?” And they give you about seven seconds to explain something as complex as how you transform someone’s lives or help a relationship or business through the process of coaching, mentoring, consulting, right? I hated answering that and then they would typically say, “Well, what makes you the guy to go to?” Right, and I hated that even more because now, I have to brag on me, how great I am and what I do. Nobody likes doing this, I think, so, I swear that I’m gonna create this process for people who will not only come to me and beg me to take them on as a client rather than do it in reverse.
So, I created this process called Attract Clients Like Crazy that was kind of my first signature methodology, but in a nutshell I work with entrepreneurial service professionals, people that are really good at something, they love transforming people’s lives, relationships, businesses, but they typically suck at turning it into an actual business. They don’t know how to get clients, how to systemize, productize what they do and first, we help them actually turn the idea into a business, we help them turn the business into a marketing machine and eventually, into something that operates without them long-term.
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome. So, is one way to say that are you like a business mentor for experts?
Adam Urbanski: Pretty much, pretty much. On my screen I have this terms, marketing mentors, you know where businesses come to grow, but yeah for those who have some sort of expertise and they want results and they want them fast [inaudible 00:03:18].
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome, that’s awesome. Well, in part of getting to know you, you have a view around how the current school system or the way learning happens today has some limitations. Can you tell us your philosophy and your take on all that?
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, you know it’s really interesting because I think part of my psychological makeup and unique ability is to count, see a couple steps in advance. I’ve been quietly whispering about how the way schooling is today, really sets people at a disadvantage and a lot of people talk about it. People write books about this, the way schools work today doesn’t work. I only finished high school, never went to college and funny enough what started my coaching/consulting business, all of my clients were at least MBAs, most of them PhDs, very frequently with more than one PhD, like in more than one area.
I kind of secretly made fun of them, not so secretly. I made fun of them and said, “Look, you went to school for all those years, you paid all this money, now you come to a high school grad to teach you how to make business out of that.” But you see what happens whether it’s loving parents or religious background, or schools’ academic background or corporations, they’re set up to basically establish a box and you have to operate within that box. They tell you what’s right or wrong in their opinion. They will tell you when you name yourself, like whether you can have certain title or not. Whether you can take on certain responsibilities within the corporations or academic world.
Unfortunately or fortunately, today’s world doesn’t operate this way, right? If you want to break out from the crowd, if you want to establish any type of success attraction, you’ve got to operate outside of those parameters, you can’t operate by established rules. You got to break the status quo. Rules are changing so fast that if you try to follow them, by the time you figure out what they are they’ve changed already. Entrepreneurs, you can’t wait for someone to tell you that you’re good enough or you’ve got the right to do something. You essentially got to claim something and go for it.
From that perspective, schools and all sorts of academic training, corporate training backgrounds they set people up for failure by teaching them to memorize rules or memorize things but not necessarily think how to solve problems.
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome. I kind of agree with you more in terms of building … teaching people how to operate inside of a fixed system or box, that’s one skill set. But the world is quickly moving to just so much more uncertainty and change happens even faster, so really the meta skill is that ability to adapt to change and really thrive in it. Thrive in it, create value in it, create opportunities inside of it, help people who are going through change, and the school system’s not designed for that.
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, you know Peter Diamandis wrote this book called Abundance, I think, and it’s kind of fascinating because he talks about how the world is actually better off than its ever been before, but he also talks a lot about different technology, different disruptions in different industries, right? People are massively finding themselves displaced, they can’t figure out what the heck is going on. I mean look, Facebook in terms of connectivity and technology, right? Yet people feel most disconnected ever, that’s why you’ve got all the dating sites. You can’t even find each other if you want two teenagers to go on a date, they’ve got to text each other. They can’t even communicate, so now you’ve got to have service teaching people how to talk face to face.
What I’m getting at is that the highest paid skill today is actually the ability to think creatively and solve problems. You’ve got to look at, okay, someone is trying to get from point A to point B and they have no idea how, and the old rules, how they traveled that path no longer apply and no longer work. How the heck we make it work? If you can figure that out without someone telling you how to do it, you can pretty much call your own shots.
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome. I love that focus on what’s valuable today. When you help somebody else do that, you’re helping somebody else get results and that ties into a concept you have called The Results Revolution. So the people listening to this show are online course creators, membership site owners, people who are looking to generate leads through teaching online. What would you have to say to them about what the results revolution is and why is it important?
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, well you know depends on how long people have been in this industry. If you’re just getting in you may be completely unfamiliar with my pet peeve, but if you’ve been at it for a while you probably know kind of the dark secret of information marketing, online courses and that is that pretty much about 95% of people that will sign up for a course will ultimately fail. They will either not complete the course or they will fail to even get any positive ROI on their investment. If they break even they’ll be lucky, right?
I always talk about, look if this were car industry they would be out of business. There is no other industry where we can get away with 95% failure rate, and yet in online education, in remote coaching type approach, that’s pretty prevalent. So it always bothered me because I started out as a baker. As a baker, what do you do? You get a bunch of ingredients, you mix them up, throw them in the oven and like boom, an hour or two later you’ve got something amazing coming out. It’s aromatic, it smells, you can touch it, you can feel it, you can sink your teeth into it, so in a way I’m addicted to results. For myself and for clients.
When you work with someone and you know that you’ve put a lot of working into creating something, like a pathway, like a course, and they’ve invested money into this and you don’t see them get results that I know they want and they give up half way through, they don’t even cross the finish line, or they cross the finish line and then total flat line. I’m like, man, this is very disheartening. So I’ve been on this kick for years now, how do I reverse engineer this? For most people, there’s kind of a total, like a second line topic to it because I talk about the ultimate responsibility.
As an entrepreneur, as a business owner, and frankly I think in today’s society the ticket to winning is you got to accept absolute responsibility for everything, and where it ties into the results is that, look, when I do this and say look, you fail. You didn’t complete my course, right? It’s not my fault, you didn’t finish my course. Well I’ve got to realize that one finger points at them, but three point at me. I’ve got to ask myself how else could I have structured this course? How could I have made it easier? How could I have made it more fun? How could I make it more applicable for them? How could I make it more exciting so they want to come back and take the next module and next module? How could I have made it so it’s faster, it’s more implementable every step of the way so they actually start seeing results quickly? How could I have made client selection more effective so I only accept the right clients?
I mean everything is about how could I have made it better and more effective, right? I can ramble on, but ultimately for coaches, consultants, any type of learning program creators, we’ve got to realize that today we live in a results economy, and sure you can launch a product, you can launch total crap and make a million dollars. Problem is fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. People won’t be coming back, so if you want long lasting success you’ve got to do something that creates amazing results for people consistently, predictably, systematically, and ultimately profitable for you.
Chris Badgett: Yeah, that’s … man, we are so on the same page about what’s important in the online learning industry. When I get approached with questions about building a course site or a membership site, if the questions are predominantly focused on how to lock down content and payment plans and conversion optimization, those are all fine and valid but I know the people that have the highest odds are success, they are the ones that are asking me, “How do I make my course engaging? What do you think about this lesson content? Is this gonna help people get results? What do you think about my assignments, I’m trying to not just give information but have people interact with the real world.”
When I hear stuff like that, those are the people who are focusing on the right things and focusing on results.
Adam Urbanski: I agree with you 100%, yeah.
Chris Badgett: Could you give an example, just a hypothetical two versions of a course, like kind of the old school way versus a new results revolution way, like how they might frame them?
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, from my own business because when technology became so easy, like recording audio and video, and then information marketing and Internet made it so easy to reach massive audiences and sell, the way to create an online program was look, create a live event, record the heck out of it and just put it out there. I’ve got courses where I’ve sold, and they’ve sold well, problem is that again the completion rates sucked, right? I have one course that I sold, here’s the kicker, I’ve sold almost half a million dollars worth over two years of a course that was something like 11 or 15 audio CDs, and then at one point I took a set of those CDs and started listening in my own car, like two years after, and I discovered that CD number three was blank.
Now Chris I never got a single fricken refund.
Chris Badgett: Why?
Adam Urbanski: Because nobody probably got to CD number three, I have no idea-
Chris Badgett: Oh, I see.
Adam Urbanski: What? Why? It’s embarrassing to admit, right, but that was the thing, record a seminar, put it out there. Now for an average person to sit through a 90 minute or two hour video segment, or even audio segment, it’s excruciating. You can’t remember Jack, even if you take copious notes, chances that you’re going to take any action ever are completely irrelevant, I mean very small, right?
So today what I do instead is if I create a course, when I create a course, it’s chunked into 7, 10, 15 minute segments. They cover one idea, they start with an idea, they give you an example, they give you a walk through, they give you a tool or an action step and then say go do it, right? Then you’ve got some kind of quiz or questionnaire or they got a call to action, like look don’t go forward, go and do something with it, and it’s got to be as enticing and as exciting and fairly easy to implement with detail for every step so the person gets into this and go, wow, this is really exciting. I just did this little thing and wow, boom, this feels good.
Even as simple as print out the little card, and every time you learn stick it on your door and say don’t bother me for the next 60 minutes, I’m learning. The action of printing it out gets people into some sort of implementation mode. So little things. Another thing that we did today, a person signs up for a $2,000 course and for the first 10 days they don’t even get the first module. Wait, what? Yeah, for the first 10 days we actually teach them how to study, number one, how to implement more effectively, number two, and then number three how to manage their time better, because most people are extremely busy so we first want to teach them how to empty their plate a little bit so they have room for new material to come in.
It pre-selects the right audience, it puts them in the right frame of mind. It’s almost like when you get students into a new class, you kind of develop this relationship with them first. You don’t go on day one, okay here is the hardest core topic to cover in the whole semester, we’re going to do it today. You kind of ease people into this, so we kind of do the same thing, so you’ve got two opposite ends of the spectrum.
Chris Badgett: That’s beautiful. Yeah, I think another way to look at it is it’s not just about the information. This whole industry was born out of publishing or information products, but this next wave, I don’t know what you would call it, they’re still information products [crosstalk 00:16:13]. Yeah, yeah so it’s all about assaults.
Adam Urbanski: Today, my best course, we just launched it about nine months ago, we actually have about 95% success rate and I am just so thrilled about this, but the whole idea, number one difference is that it’s all about extreme member or client selection, to the point where it’s how even introducing to the program. At this point we’ve got about 80% conversion rate from prospects to clients, but the reason it’s so high is because we get totally upfront who it’s for, who it’s not for, what kind of qualifications you have to meet, and then the reason it’s not 100% is because the 20% that don’t get in, we actually end up telling them this is not for you. Here’s a better path, we will take your money but this is not a course for you, so go somewhere else, right?
Here’s what I’m really getting at. The thing that we show our students is implementation is fundamental, information is supplemental. It’s all about go and start doing, and as you need information we’ve got it and we’ll point you in the right module, open the modules for you, we’ll tell you which part to study, but the last thing we want you to do is go and spend two hours a day consuming a bunch of info, only to run out of time to do anything with it.
Chris Badgett: That’s incredible, and I’m actually writing that down so I can steal that and use that later, and I will give you credit whenever I say it. Just to restate it for everybody listening, Adam said that implementation is fundamental, information is supplemental. I love that focus on being a guardian of your prospect or your learners’ time, and if you give them too much information you’re not leaving them time for implementation. Everybody’s crazy busy like you mentioned, so the sands are falling through the hour glass. Use those grains of sand wisely and not just for information. That’s really beautiful.
I also just want to highlight the use of an application process. You’re focusing more on qualifying the leads into your course and making sure they’re the right fit, than trying to get as many people as possible over the paywall into your membership site. It’s a totally different strategy and it’s totally, in some ways, counter-intuitive unfortunately, that that’s actually the path to higher levels of success by having a program that gets upward 90% plus success rate, that’s the best marketing you could ever do.
It’s not about converting cold leads off of ads, as many as possible into an information product.
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, and you know both have their place and depending of where people are in the path of their business development, that’s the strategy they’ve got to implement. You know, one thing that I’ve learned actually from kind of software companies like Airbnb, you’ve got a lot of people that either have course, have a software of some sorts, right? Airbnb is a great story for those who haven’t studied it, they should. They actually went to people that were renting different locations, they were talking to them, what’s working? What’s not working? They were taking the pictures, posting it online.
They were delivering the first commission cheques to talk to people. It wasn’t about how do we automate it better so we don’t have to talk to anybody ever, it was like how do we talk to those people more so we figure out what works, what doesn’t work. To me, that’s the path to success. Basecamp, one of those guys, what’s their name?
Chris Badgett: David Heinemeier Hansson, DHH.
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, so you know they started as a consulting business before they developed an online platform. I tend to think this is a better path because you’re focusing on working with someone hands on, helping them deliver the results they need to, want to get. Helping them figure out how to solve some problems, and then you think can I systemize this? Can I automate this somehow? Can I make this into a process that’s more hands-off for me and still delivers the results. But when people do it in reverse, and they try to automate too much, too fast, they end up putting a bunch of crap out there that’s untested, doesn’t work and then they focus on scaling and selling, and it’s like you can scale a bunch of crap but do you really want to do that?
Chris Badgett: That’s beautiful, yeah, I’m a huge fan of any kind of start-up education, technology, whatever to do things that don’t scale, especially in the beginning and have that feedback loop wide open so you know that you’re … that it’s working, number one, and number two that you have an opportunity to modify things and iterate before you start scaling. That’s really well said.
For the listener out there who is hearing what we’re talking about here and really getting on the same page of how important delivering results are and being selective and working with the people who are the best possible fit and committing to getting them results and taking responsibility as the platform owner or teacher, educator or mentor. If that all sounds great and I’m a little, I’m thinking … I know you talk a little bit about the scarcity and the abundant mindset and things like that, if I’m sliding a little bit to the scarcity side and I’m worried about the money, will anybody buy my program? This all sounds great, but if I’m going to have a smaller group of people that are highly engaged, highly committed, I need to charge higher prices and I should because it’s going to be an awesome experience and it’s going to deliver the results.
What advice do you have on creating a high end offer, and should it start with an online course or should it start with something else if you’re a mentor or a coach of sorts? What would you advise to us in terms of getting to revenue and getting to high end revenue?
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, so I tend to guide people to starting with higher end but more customizable, more hands-on offers, right, so there’s actually kind of a bit of a process that I’ll walk you through. I think going back to how education hinders people, a lot of folks start with they have an idea and they’re pretty good at something, but they have this imposter syndrome. I call it the Fraud Factor, they start thinking well who the heck am I? There are people that have got books on the topic and they’ve got a big following. Who am I to teach on this topic?
The worse thing you can do is start teaching them something that you just learned, you have no success, essentially you regurgitate other people’s information. It’s really a bad idea because you have no depth. I talk about talking the walk … I’m sorry, walking the talk. Wait a second, I’m just confusing myself. I did the right, talking the walk, that’s the one, talk the walk. It’s the reverse of what people normally hear, right? Somebody’s really walking the talk, which essentially means they’re now doing what they talked about for a long time.
I always say reverse that, which is talk the walk. So do something first and then talk about it, and it can be fairly small. It can be something as simple as, look, you put together an opt-in page for yourself and you put 1, 2, 3, 4 and every single one is getting really awesome conversion rate and maybe you’ve done something different. Well now you can really talk about creating high converting opt-in pages, based on your own experience and you can talk about is it really true that above the fold is the big deal? Does it have to be? I mean you can talk about all the variances because you now implemented some stuff, right?
Now you start teaching other people, you can go and say look, give me a couple grand and I’m going to put a really awesome opt-in page for you, and in fact I was not just an opt-in page but I want to create a really awesome first lead gen process for you, from the right material, the right topic, the right opt-in page to the right seven step follow up, because I’ve done this for myself. Essentially, you are now talking about something you’ve now done for yourself. This, to me, is the fastest path to start, to break out from the crowd, distinguish yourself and start offering something that can implement fairly significant amount of money, because you’ve become an expert on a very small area.
That’s kind of the first step. The second step for me is if you had a card blanche and a client came to you and said, “Look, money was no object. What really matters to me is that I want better result and I want it in a fastest, smoothest, frictionless way possible. What would you help me do? What can you do for me?” Essentially, you sit down and think to yourself, okay, what could I do for the client? And by the way, who would be an ideal client that I would want to work with, right? Get very, very specific.
When you do that you realize two things. Number one, there are people like this out there that want this kind of approach. Number two, you can charge a lot of money for that, and number three you need very few people to make a lot of money. The last part is, it’s actually not as time involving as most people think it is. Those high end client want result, they buy result they not buying your time, so if you can deliver better result in a day of work and charge for it $10,000, they don’t care that it took you a day. All they care is they got what they wanted and they got it fast.
Chris Badgett: Yeah, and I think that’s important.
Adam Urbanski: I just rambled on, I’m gonna shut up and let you say.
Chris Badgett: No, that’s good, I like that approach of starting with the high end client and getting into it, talking the walk, and just delivering high end results once you figure it out for people. If that’s $100,000 problem that you’re solving, and you charge $10,000 for it and it only takes you a day, that’s great. I mean that’s how high end clients think. They don’t care, they just want the result and if they’re getting a 10 x return on investment, it’s a no brainer.
Adam Urbanski: I think the biggest point for our listeners to get out of that is that you may initially have a different market to approach with your services. The person who buys done for you or done with you type program is different than buys how to learning course. The person who buys how to training course may not afford done for you, done with you services, because it’s the lower end of the spectrum in terms of the audience, right? You have to realize that sometimes how much you get to charge for what you do or for what you provide, for what you sell, has mostly to do with who you sell it to.
One of the biggest factors, it’s not about how do you make the course better or how do you just put more whistles and bells on it. It’s about finding the right person whose judging, whose buying criteria is not how many bonuses do I get in that, but it’s about what’s the least amount of time I get to put in there, and what’s the best result I get out of it, what’s the fastest? That’s what I care about.
I’ll give you an example. A while back I was selling a licensing training program. This is now years back, and man I’m pretty good at selling, but it was important to me that I get good result, plus I wanted to train some other people, and I wanted to run my methodology by someone else. I called someone else who’s kind of an expert on selling high end things and stripping, come on over to this four day event, it’s only $5,000. I said look, I really don’t want to go to a three day or four day event, I don’t want to do that. Give me three hours of your consulting time and I pay $6,000 for three hours versus $5,000 for three days. All I wanted was undivided attention for short amount of time, help me get this sucker figured out the way I want it figured out, and then I’m done.
That’s kind of the mentality. That’s the kind of buyer you’re looking for. I don’t want fluff, I don’t want processes, I want result, I want it fast, I’m willing to pay for it.
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome, well could you talk a little bit about the transition if somebody is doing done for you or done with you services to something that’s more do it yourself information but still results related and still high end? How do you make that transition?
Adam Urbanski: Yeah, that’s actually pretty easy transition, believe it or not. The other way around is not so easy. Look, if Ford Fiesta wanted to all of a sudden sell Bentley style type of cars, they would have a really hard time positioning, right? They would almost have to start a new brand, it doesn’t work. But look, Porsche, high end cars, what do they do to appeal to more mass bodies, they cannot put [inaudible 00:29:38], mini version, entry level Porsche.
The principle is the same. Your audience, there is a large population of your audience that is watching you going like, man I wish I could hire those guys to help me do this, right? I wish I could work with them but this is out of my budget. All of a sudden you come out with a course and say, look the same thing we do for those high end guys, the same processes, the same psychologies, the same mentality we teach them, we want to share that with you but because we’re going to leverage the platform as a group, your investment’s going to be a fraction of what they’ve invested. You’re going to have people beating a path to your door, going please let me in. I was waiting for this.
That transition is actually fairly easy. What your job as an educator, trainer, coach, consultant, content developer is to then take the core concept that you’ve helped clients implement and strip it from as much fluff as … you know, don’t add fluff because now it’s a course and you need more hours. Think about what do you actually need to teach that will help people move forward in the fastest, easiest way possible.
Chris Badgett: That’s awesome, well Adam Urbanski, ladies and gentlemen, that was like a master class in the current landscape of education and where the opportunity is for education entrepreneurs out there. We talked about the results revolution and being really selective on the people that join your platform, and we talked about the counter-intuitive insight of creating a high end, done for you or done with you offer on your way to later creating something scalable, and we talked about the transition from that high end offer to something that is scalable, which is actually fairly easy to sell when you make the statement that learn exactly what we do for our high end clients at an affordable price because you’re going to do the work but we’re going to give you the steps and leverage this technology to do it in a group context, in a way that still works but can scale.
That’s beautiful stuff Adam. For the listener out there-
Adam Urbanski: You made it easy by asking the right questions, so thank you Chris.
Chris Badgett: Right on, well you’re at themarketingmentors.com. Where else can people find you across the Internet?
Adam Urbanski: You know, I think … I love to hang out on Facebook actually, believe it or not, I’m sort of addicted plus I do a lot of stuff in terms of delivering content for people right through Facebook groups, so just look up Adam Urbanski on Facebook and connect with me. Send me a message. I love to hear from you. But you know, I also want to give a shout out to your audience in terms of like giving them kudos for looking you up and listening to you because I scanned through a few of your episodes prior to coming on and listened to a couple. You’ve got fantastic guests, fantastic content, and I’m a big believer in kind of finding a couple of things and sticking with them.
So if someone truly is into productizing their teaching and their services and doing online courses, whether it’s very granual, whether it’s more done for you, with you, whatever you do I think you’ve got to stick with your podcast, and they got to come back and listen to a few more episodes. Man, if you found it valuable, Chris may not ask you, I’ll ask for him. Give him a great review because it really counts, so if you found value type in a few words and give him a few thumbs up, okay?
Chris Badgett: Awesome, well thank you Adam. I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with us, and we’ll have to do it again sometime.
Adam Urbanski: I would love to.
