How to Create an Online Training Program that Sells with Nancy Giere

In this LMScast episode, Nancy shares her thoughts on how entrepreneurs can embrace change. And make the most of their circumstances, especially in light of the pandemic. She discusses how people can shift from delivering their message on stage to delivering it effectively in a virtual setting.

She emphasized that entrepreneurs need to look at the opportunities and constraints of the new medium they are using, whether it’s virtual delivery or online courses, and think intentionally about how they can be effective and engaging. One tip she gave for creating engaging content is to change scenes frequently, whether it’s switching from on-camera to slides or using different camera angles. She also suggested leveraging more discussion and breakout rooms to avoid being in a constant telling mode.

She believes in creating engaging content through various methods, including changing scenes, leveraging discussions. Breakout rooms, and using interactive tools. Overall, Nancy is a valuable resource for entrepreneurs looking to create high-value online training programs.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Badgett: You've come to the right place if you're looking to create, launch, and scale a high value online training program. I'm your guide, Chris Badgett. I'm the co-founder of LifterLMS, the most powerful learning management system for WordPress. State of the end, I've got something special for you. Enjoy the show.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of L m s Cast. I'm joined by a special guest. Her name is Nancy Geary. She helps entrepreneurs turn their expertise into profitable online programs. The topic near and dear to our heart here LifterLMS, and we're gonna get into a lot of stuff cuz Nancy covers instructional design. She, she's a smart entrepreneur herself, and we're just gonna kind of pull out as many tips and tricks and ideas to change your life and help you with your or your clients online course goals. Welcome to the show, Nancy.

Nancy Giere: Well, thanks. I'm really happy to be here today.

Chris Badgett: I was listening to something on your website and there was a message about change.

Nancy Giere: Yes.

Chris Badgett: And, you know, as a expert, subject matter expert, you know, in a job, maybe a dream of like starting your own business, having an online course, or maybe you're already an entrepreneur, but you want to, it's in a different kind of thing and you want to teach that and turn it into a course. There's like this change you have to go through as a person. What, what, what's kind of some counterintuitive advice or insights you have around change and how it helps entrepreneurs to actually break through and get momentum?

Nancy Giere: Well, you know, change is, is constant, right? And the environment that we're in and the circumstances around us are ever changing. And so we have the choice of, well, how do we, how do we lean into what's going on and make the most of our current circumstances? You know? And I think the best example is something that we've all just lived through is so when the pandemic hit and people had to look at their businesses and say, well, what I've been doing up till now maybe isn't gonna work so well, you know, particularly if somebody was speaking on stages all around the country, well, there were no stages. So there needed to be a shift and go, well, what do I do to be able to deliver my best message in a virtual way? And how do I think at, think about it from a real intentional point of view about what do I need to do to be effective in this new medium?

A lot of people, I think, panicked. They rushed, they just, they took a bunch of recordings. They put an intro and an outro on it and said, okay, now I have a course. Well, no, what you have is a recording and there's nothing wrong with that, but promoted as such. And if you're thinking about a course or you're thinking about delivering on Zoom instead of on a stage, you have to look at what are the opportunities in this new form and what are the constraints? And what can I do to show up in the best way possible so people see how brilliant I really am in instead of yet another recording. I think there's a, I think there's, I think that's what's taken up all the bandwidth on, on the web these days. Tons of recordings.

Chris Badgett: Yeah. That's I love that. And you know, we hear today the concept of like zoom fatigue or whatever mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and people I've noticed, just as an online business person myself, less people are, are going to webinars and like these long presentations or whatever. So how do we create more engaging content, whether it's in our course or outside of it in our marketing? Like how do we, how do we make it not just a recording,

Nancy Giere: Not just a recording? Well, <laugh> not just a recording. Well, it, it, it's kind of funny. It's not just a recording, but it ends up being recorded. So, okay, we gotta get, get out of this circular loop right away. There's, there's several different ways to make something engagement, and one of the first ways and the simplest ways is to think about how can you change the scenes if you're, if you watch anything from an entertainment point of view or a news point of view, the scenes are constantly changing. Now, not everybody is in a position where they can have a three camera shoot and have somebody, you know, at a mixer and putting it all together. But if you think about moving from being on camera to then having slides come up and invest in a tool like e a m if you're on a Mac where you can design scenes where you could have a lower third pop up.

Any, anytime something changes on the screen that creates some level of interaction because it's like, oh wait, what's happening? I mean, our, our brain is just, is just tuned into that. The other part is, let's say if we're, if we're in the Zoom session, leverage more discussion and more ba breakout rooms. Try to avoid being in this, you know, telling mode all of the time. Several years ago I was working with a client and this was when everything was live, and they said to me, we want you to put together a course and you can do anything you want, but lecture. And that was a very tough thing to go through. I had to make everything discussion based, everything discovery learning. And it was, it was like, yeah, it was every single module I was challenged, okay, now how am I gonna make this work? How am I gonna make this work? So if you can, if you can have the courage to let your audience have some degree of control where they're involved in conversation, they're in a breakout room, you're asking them to put things into the chat, you're asking them for a thumbs up, you maybe looking for games that you can bring in that's gonna keep people interested. You know, the, and, and to move away from, I'm just gonna talk it to you for an hour.

Chris Badgett: I love that. It's, it's a dance not a, a movie. Yeah,

Nancy Giere: Yeah, exactly. And then when you go into the evergreen space and you wanna look at, well, what's available to me given whatever the, the platform that I'm on, wh what can I bring in and how can I break it up? And there it's, you know, keeping your videos short and to the point, bringing in opportunities for personal reflection, giving people activities to do, kind of thinking about, you know, they're starting here and I wanna get 'em here. What do I have to do to close that gap? And how quickly can I get them to be doing something and not just watching and listening.

Chris Badgett: If somebody's trying to elevate their expertise and also kind of get past imposter syndrome and all that, how do they, how do they do that?

Nancy Giere: Wow. Well, the best way I think to get around imposter syndrome is just start to put yourself out there and realize that your message is unique to you. You know, that, for example, there's a lot of people that are that are in the coaching space, but every coach has a different spin on how they're going to move people through their process and how they connect with people. So you wanna kind of think about what can, what can you look for where you can make a connection? Have somebody really kind of see you as you as you are, so that they're gonna, they're gonna want to engage with you. If there's, I think the other challenge, kind of tying back to zoom fatigue is it's not normal for us to look at ourselves all day. You know, right now we're talking, I can see you, but I can also see me.

So I'm, you know, I'm thinking about, is my hair okay? Is this okay? Is that okay? And I have to like stop, not, not really think about that. If we were sitting in a room together, you'd be looking at me, I'd be looking at you. We wouldn't have this sense of, oh, there's also a fear, I think, to be on camera, like somehow, you know, if I shoot a video, oh, you know, am I gonna get it right? Am I gonna be okay? It can be interesting enough. And really we're in a point now where we all just have to get over it and just get on, get on video. I'm, I'm planning to do like a, a 12 days of, of time to the 12 days of Christmas. So I've challenged myself to do a video a day for 12 days <laugh> and get it out to my community. And it's just, it's just doing it and practicing. If you never put yourself out there, if you never practice, you can never improve. You can never get better if you don't take that first step.

Chris Badgett: That's awesome. How do we help the entrepreneurs with no teacher training? Do instructional design? I'm, I'm looking at your website, which is nancy geary.com, that's n a n c y G i e R e.com. And you have a resource called eight Easy Steps to create training that sells. Yes. Like, how do we what, give us some of the steps or how do we kind of, if we don't know how to, you know, chunk into something that people can consume in a course, how do we do that?

Nancy Giere: Okay, well, the A D Z steps is, is the high level process that I apply to every project that I work on, whether it's a solopreneur or a Fortune 50 company. The process is, is all the same. It's just the content and the complexity is what is what changes, what the, the first part is to think about who your audience is and what is the, the transformation that you can bring about. So to come up with this overarching statement about how your program is going to help somebody to, to, to, to, to change, kind of going back to where we were at the beginning, what's the change that's going to occur? Really get dialed in on that audience. What are their pain points? What are their problems? What are their challenges? Now, depending on the work that you do, one kind of clue is, are there things that you say over and over and over and over again, everybody you work with, there's a good chance that that's content that you could then extract and look at, well, now how can I organize this into, into an online course?

Once you're kind of dialed in on your audience and what they need, you wanna kind of frame it and ask yourself this the most important question, which is, by the end of this course, what are they going to be able to do? What are they going to know that they didn't know before? And how are they going to feel? And that kind of becomes your kind of, your guiding light as you go through the whole process. Then the next step is to come up with an outline, and we're, we're like doing instructional design in 30 seconds. <Laugh> is to really think about in outline. So what is it that you wanna cover? You can do some brainstorming on your topics, but then kind of get, get like, okay, here's everything that I need to address in order to get people to that place that I wanna get them to come up.

And then think about now how do I sequence it? And then step back and go, now what information here is really need to know versus nice to know and your training, you wanna focus on the need to know. One of the challenges that we have as experts is, I got a lot to say <laugh>. So you have to think about, well, what belongs in a course and what might you wanna deliver to people in another way through articles or here's, or kind of bonus content if you will, but you really wanna think about the main road and then the side road. And then you wanna bump that up against, well, what are your current assets that you have? So here's my list of topics, here's some assets that I have that I can repurpose. And then you also have a clear picture of what you don't have in place.

So you kind of know, you get a sense of the, the scope of how to build it. Then you step back and you go, okay, given all of this content, what's the best way to teach it? And that's where the fun comes in, where you think about, well, do I wanna shoot a video here? Do I want to provide an interactive exercise? Am I going to incorporate a game or a quiz or whatever type of modality to kind of, to bring the content to life? And then you're ready to start to, to build it all out. And it, the building can be challenging depending on kind of where people are and what their expertise is. You know, are you, are you good with graphics? Are you good? Do you have a nice slide deck that you can leverage? Are you gonna need somebody to do video editing?

What type of graphic elements are you gonna wanna bring into the videos? I mentioned I've been using E cam, which allows me to have the graphics come up while I'm recording, which saves time on the backend in terms of post-production. But then you may just wanna have a editor, editor come in and just do all of that for you. So that's like a real compressed kind of roadmap of, of how to get from end to end. And all along the way really just being, you know, there's instructional design, but I've coined the term intentional design in this work to really think about given the delivery platform, what can I do to be the most effective and engaging.

Chris Badgett: Wow, that's awesome. Can you give us a like a, just a pro tip insight, if somebody's like, let's say working with a, a large company with some kind of training objective, what's an example you mentioned where it is the same process, there's just more complexity. Yes. What's an example of that complexity in this process?

Nancy Giere: I, I think oftentimes the, the complexity is kind of ties into the content. So for example, I did some work as part of a team for Eastman Chemical, and it was, it was their supply chain management. That's a, that's a fairly involved process. There are lots of different departments that have to come into play. There's they were kind of, they were revamping the software that they were gonna be using. So they were going from a series of spreadsheets to a brand new application. So there's a huge change management component because you've got a lot of people that they were content to a certain extent with the way that they were working. 

And now I'm gonna have to put faith that this new software application is gonna do for me what I, what I did before. And then some. So you've got like this, when you're, when you're saying like there's a wholesale change through a whole division of a company about how they're going to work, that gets to be very complicated because even when change is a very positive thing and people can see, yeah, this is gonna be good, there's a little bit of a like, ah, but I'm used to doing it this other way and I, I gotta make the shift cuz.
And, and so there, there's a whole like getting people on board and ready to, ready to move forward and, you know, feel good about where they're heading. So when you've got more people to train cross-functional teams, that's where the complexity can come in.

Chris Badgett: That's awesome. I love what you said about you know, the transformation. How do you, how does somebody want to, what do they want to know, do and feel? and, and also like the transformation become, like, who do they want to become? That's a, that's just a really powerful focus, forcing function to focus the outcome. Cause I, yeah, I know a lot of experts get wrapped up and well, I know a lot of things, but if you really focus on the learner and those no do feel become aspects, it becomes a lot more clear. What about story? I know that's big for you and on the top of engagement, I was on your website and I saw a thing about, you know, a chameleon can like blend in or they can stand out. And I'm like, yes. Well that's cool. I, I was like getting into the story. I'm like, this is awesome. Which kind of, what kind of chameleon do you want to be? Tell us about a story, cuz I know we've all been around story, but we all, not everybody's a great storyteller or realizes that they can use it in an online learning program or marketing or whatever. So yeah, take us to school

Nancy Giere: So well, okay, so another way to look at a story is an example.

Chris Badgett: Okay.

Nancy Giere: So if you, you know, I just gave you an example of what a, a complex training situation could be. And when you think about it, we all tell stories all the time. A lot of conversation is story I'm telling you about what I just did, you know, then you're, then you're gonna add to it and you're gonna tell me about kind of how your life relates to my life. And we're just kind of, I feel like a lot of conversation is trading stories. And we've been, I think, wired into story from the very beginning of time. <Laugh>, if you go back, you go way back into the day, think about cave paintings where that was telling a story of the hunt, or then you move forward in a lot of cathedrals. They had a visual storytelling. They had, you know, the, these are, these are the lessons from the Bible that everybody needs to know.

And it was all visual because a lot of people couldn't read, you know, then books come into play. People sitting around at, around the fire and telling stories. People, you know, today or, or you know, sitting in, in bars and telling stories, family gatherings, everybody's, everybody's telling a story. So everybody's got a story, but there's, then we kind of go back to this imposter syndrome, you know, is my story going to be good enough? Is it going to be relatable? So a way to look at it when you're building out a training program is think about your clients and really get dialed into who they are and what their challenges have been and what, and how you help them overcome them. So it comes back to the, the, the whole idea of the hero's journey. You've got the heroes working their way through. And then there's, there's the guide that comes in the fairy, God, Cinderella had the fairy godmother, you know, here I got the glass shoes, you're ready to go.

And we as course creators, we're the guides. So what you wanna do is put your content into the, into the co into context around what is life like for that person. So let's use sales training for an example. Sales of sales, of sales of sales. There's a, there's a process. But if I'm selling one of my clients, his, his market is luxury home builders. Okay? The way that you sell a luxury home is different than a software application or a coaching program. So what you wanna think about is, okay, how can I, how can I dig into who I've worked with, what they've done, and what they've accomplished and tell that story. And sometimes it's easier to tell somebody else's story than our own. Cuz I mean, you're like, we're bragging, you know So.

Chris Badgett: Very cool. Very cool. How about training for lead generation? Like how do we think about learning as a tool for marketing?

Nancy Giere: I think it's one of the, the best tools that you can use because what you're doing is you're giving people insight into who you are and what you can offer. And if you can, you can put it out in a, whether it's a, a sort of in a, in your marketing, in a drip marketing campaign, or oftentimes, you know, the, the webinar is the, the, the lead gen. You know, you, if I do a, a program about, I just did something about how to turn a book into an online course. So for me, that was a way I wanted to attract authors into my world, have them an, give them an opportunity to experience me. My teaching, kind of my personality more than anything else is like, I think she's fun, I wanna work with her, or man, I don't resonate with her at all.

I'm, I'm moving on. But that's all it, it's all part of making the connection. I've worked with people in the past who've set up content around their business. So somebody who does e-commerce for example, if they put how to run a few courses free, how to set up an e-commerce business, somebody's gonna read that. And they're, and when they're ready, they'll go, you know what, I'm gonna go talk to him because he, he spoke to me. I got that free information from him and I'm ready to hire him. 

And it just, this morning, you know, I know that I had somebody say, and I had sent something out and she booked time with me. And my first question was, what prompted you to talk with me today? And she said, well, I've been thinking about creating a course for a while. And when I saw your email, I thought, yeah, it's time to talk. So it's, it doesn't always happen immediately, but it's just this, it's a way to stay in front of people in a way that's more interesting than just read this document, read this article, you know, if you come up with a little mini course can be a bit more fun.

Chris Badgett: That's awesome. And memory, we do, we do that at our software company, at Lift All Mess, we have a free mini course about how to create your course really fast and it's, it's our largest lead generation.

Nancy Giere: Oh, I bet. Course.

Chris Badgett: What what are some of the classic mistakes that you see? Because I, I see a lot of pain. I've been in this market for about sure. 12 years, and I see a lot of failed dreams and projects that don't work out. There's a lot of great success out there too, but there's often, there's not enough attention put on the stories of what didn't work out. So what do, what do you see are some mistakes that kind of cause failure, either to launch or it launches and it doesn't work out?

Nancy Giere: Well, the, the, one of the first mistakes that I see is people will think about, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put this course together. And they'll, they start like, oh, I'm gonna write the introduction. And they kind of, they think about it from end to end of what the experience is going to be like for the client instead of stepping back and what I mentioned before about sort of what do you want them to do know and feel really the, the whole idea of begin with the end in mind. Think about where you want to take people, then plan the journey because it, it, I've, I liken it too. I'm was a big fan of, of Snoopy growing up. And when Snoopy was the author and he is on top of the doghouse and it was a dark and stormy night, a shot rang out and then he is like, well, now I don't know where to go.

And then people kind of get stuck and it, it does and it ends up and they get frustrated because, well, why isn't this working? So you really want to kind of plan all your content out and then organize it into a, a logical flow with the idea of where am I gonna take someone? That's the first mistake that I see. The second one is this desire to tell people everything, you know, instead of really kind of, again, using that guideline that I've talked about, instead of stepping back and saying, what's the most critical information? What do they really need to be successful? And have that be what goes into the, into the course. There's this desire to tell everybody everything cuz it's so exciting. And then, but pe but it can be too much, it can be overwhelming or think about how to put something into, into a series, but really being mindful of how how much is, is enough to get people to where they need to go.

So that, that's another problem. Lemme say something flying in outta my head. There's also this sense of my course will work for everyone, right? What product or service does somebody offer that you can really be effective When you say it works for everyone? So just like when you're doing your marketing, when you look at your training, you wanna be niched so that you're going after a particular target market, which then leads you into what's the problem that you're going to solve for that market. So it's, it's really, I think the stepping back and taking a moment to plan instead of just, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go a little bit of planning and I'm not talking about months. If you just took a week to plan and then you'd be, you'd be in much better shape and you'd, you'd end up getting completed faster and getting to the success that you want faster too.

Chris Badgett: That's awesome. I wanna talk about a blend of teaching methods, kind of like the dance versus a chopped up movie version of a course <laugh>. So like on the, on the low end, let's say there's like a, somebody has a 20, $30 go at your own pace course on you, Demi or something like that. There's no real support or interaction on the high end. There's a very immersive thing. There's a course, maybe there's co group coaching, private coaching, there's live events that people pull out together too, and there's assignments and masterminds and all kinds of stuff. Like, but without overwhelming, let's say a newer expert or coach, what's like a kind of a start or bundle they could think about to create a course that comes with some kind of success system that's more than just the content. Like what, what, what could they do? And, and maybe we could use an example like somebody who's doing a certain kind of business coaching, like I help, you know, real estate agents start and grow their, their businesses.

Nancy Giere: Okay, well, I think the best way to start is to look at it from the angle of what is the kind of repetitive information and the real basic information. And to look at, you know, extracting that and building out, you know, a live program on Zoom or an Evergreen program from that very basic information. And then say, and then take a look and say, well, how can I integrate this into my larger business model? So maybe you have like a, there's the, there's the do-it-yourself path, then there's, if you have people that are working with you in a group, they get that content as well. I like to start things out thinking it from either the one-on-one perspective or the group and go, what, what do they need? And how could I support this group? Because that's, if you're doing business coaching already, you've already got people in your, your universe.

So then you step back and you say, okay, what can I provide them that will make our whole relationship more efficient in terms of me providing them guidance and also having something that they can, that the client can have as a reference point. We talked about marketing in that session, let me go now and I can more like an on demand or, or as it's needed now, let me go back and review. I'm ready to implement, but I don't remember everything that we talked about. So then they've got a place to go and look it up as opposed to having to ask a question. So it kind of comes down to best use of everybody's time, best use of the, of the business coach in this example. And best use of the client too. They may decide like, it's eight o'clock on a Friday and I've got nothing else to do, so I'm gonna do this. Right.

Chris Badgett: Do you have any input on like, pricing? I see a lot of people get hung up on like, well, what's it worth? And they just kind of, you know, stick a finger in the air, look at what the competitor's doing and how, how do we think about pricing our training programs.

Nancy Giere: I've kind of come at looking at pricing from an two perspectives. One is, so what's happening in the competitive space? And one challenge there is a lot of people that perhaps, you know, are, are celebrity status and whatever the the domain is, they may have a mailing list of a hundred thousand people. If you have a hundred thousand people on your list, if you sell something for $47, there's a good chance you're gonna you're gonna do very well because just the, the law of numbers, you know, you might get 10,000 people that are gonna sign up. Hey, that's fantastic. So I think it's hard to compete some, you know, you've gotta look at what the different the different factors are. I've started encouraging people to not only look at what their competitors are doing, but look at who else do your clients buy from for whatever, whatever the services might be.

So let's say we've got the same client base, they're gonna, they they're gonna buy some things from me, they're gonna buy some things from you. Well, if our price points are fairly close. So if I'm kind of, if I'm doing my investigation and I look at, okay, well Chris is at a thousand, I can be at a thousand. Chris is at 50 for this, I should, you know, so if they're willing to spend a thousand with you, they should be willing to spend a thousand with me. Which is another way to come at it. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to where's the perceived value? What am I, if I invest a thousand and I'm, am I gonna make 10 off my thousand dollars investment? Or am I gonna break even? I'm just gonna break even, eh, you know, maybe not, but if I have the chance to make 10. So I think it's putting it into that frame of if you do this, this is what your revenue potential is. And to kind of have that as part of the, of, of the conversation and to be real, to be realistic in, in, in what's possible and, and not overstate it. So I think some things are way overstated and then that just leads to disappointment and day drinking. So, <laugh>

Chris Badgett: Related to pricing, do you have any tips on recurring revenue around online learning programs as opposed to like one and done sales?

Nancy Giere: I think the, the recurring revenue membership sites I think are a great way to generate the recurring revenue. You need to be ready and be present to be continually giving people new, new content. You know, kind of can create a discipline that you're gonna have something new every week, every two weeks, every month, whatever that, that, whatever that cadence is going to be. The, the one and done is more of a, of a, I think a larger investment where people, it's a particular project that they want to complete. So I want to come up with a, my marketing strategy for 2023. So I'm going to, so there's a workshop to go to in December that's gonna help me get my strategy for 2023. I take that course, then I go in and I implement in 2023. That could be a one that could one example of a one and done, but then you could, then you could step back and say, well, then maybe they go from that into a membership or some ongoing support type of a program. So it all, I think depends on, on the content and kind of what's, what's the purpose of, of working through a particular type of content.

Chris Badgett: All right. Shifting gears to technology <laugh>. Okay. If we're creating online learning programs, you mentioned like e cam recorder and you know, editing and there's all these things from hardware to software right, to just all the tech required to pull it off. Any advice for people wanting to get into this in terms of how to think about the tech without getting overwhelmed,

Nancy Giere: Without getting crazy? Yeah, well I think the first thing is invest in a good microphone. Yeah. So that you have good sound quality. People will not, are not forgiving if sound is bad, if sound is bad, they're out. And then the next thing is to think about having a simple background. You know, you've got a very nice virtual background. You just, you just fit right in there. I have a background, I just gotta move that cuz I just really have a light in there. That is very simple. It's just not a picture behind me, not a lot of distraction. I can take that picture down and just have a plain white wall. I also, I I, you, you, you could use, I have a, a desk that allows me to stand or sit. You could also use, you know, boxes <laugh> to, to change the, the the point of view.

So I think those are some of the, the first things. And then think about, well, how well about h how the lighting is, how, how are you showing up in the frame? And you can buy expensive lights or you can go to Home Depot get lights. So I think some of it is just kind of setting up that how are you going to look on, on screen? That's the first step. And then from here, you know, phase one, start doing recording in Zoom and switch between being on camera and having slides. That's a good place to start and get comfortable, get in the rhythm of doing it and then you can up your game. So for me one of the next steps, one I forgot to mention, you know, you can start with the camera on your computer, but then maybe upgrade to having like I have a Logitech Brio is what I'm, what I'm using these days.

Then, so kind of this like the basics and then to just do things in Zoom and do the screen sharing kind of re related to the tech, but not related to the tech is when you, how are your graphics, how are your slides going to look? So consider investing in a graphic designer to come up with a nice branded template for you that you can then just work inside of because it'll have a a really nice look and feel for you. It's, I, I made that investment early on and it, it's been great. So then we get more into more technology and there's all kinds of things out there that you can do. So I happen to be on a Mac, which is why I purchased e a m. If I had it all hooked up here I could show it <laugh>, but I'm not, I'm not connected at this moment.

But what that allows me to do is move between different types of visuals, different types of shots, and just with, by pushing a button I can, I can change the scenes that I'm in. So you can see me on camera, you can see me with a graphic overlay. I, I can have my slides come up and I can be in a little window on the slide. So it, it, it just makes it a bit more interesting. And it's not, the learning curve isn't that steep. Then you can look at adding in, if you show, so choose the next level up would be bring in a stream deck, which then allows you to program this. So you just push a button to move from scene to scene to scene. And it's very seamless. What's great about doing this is you can put in production values, like lower thirds graphics.

Maybe I could have, if I had this white wall behind me, I could have a, a list for like an agenda item or something. And you have it all programmed in. So then when you do your recording, all of that comes together fairly nicely. And then the, the amount of editing on the backend isn't as much. Cuz the other side of it is, is then to really do post-production editing and the that, that's certainly, you know, an option too. But I think, you know, initially to keep it simple, because what's more important is how how excited are you about what you're talking about? How engaging are you? Are you really, you know, are you loving the camera? Are you really working the room? That's what's going to make a difference. Oftentimes, once people, the camera comes on, hello, my name is Nancy, I'm very happy to be here today. Right, <laugh>. And then, you know, then from there, then it's, you know, and this is more and, and your wheelhouse than mine is, then where are you gonna put the content? When you're, when you're ready to deliver.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, and I'll just throw out there, it just depends on what you're doing. If you're like super beginner, you don't have a website, there's hosted platforms like Kajabi, teachable, think if things like that and there's many more. But if you have a WordPress site, you know, that's where we exist at LifterLMS. If you already have a WordPress site, you can add it and make courses and coaching programs and host 'em yourself. I want to kind of zoom out with kind of a final question. It's kind of a hard one. Which is.

Chris Badgett: If we're talking to an expert and they're just, they got that passion. They, you know, they had that middle of the night moment or they were on vacation, they, they decided they're gonna kind of come out from behind themselves and help around a certain topic or subject matter expertise. And they've figured out like the type of person they want to help. You mentioned helping book writers become course creators. So there's books, we can write books, we can create courses, we can do coaching programs, we can do consulting we can do public speaking. And I know it probably depends on the personality of the person, but I, I do see some people get a little paralyzed cuz they, they're like, oh, I gotta do all that. I'm, I'm working on my book, my course, trying to get speaking gigs. I'm, I'm doing coaching and I have services too. And they just explode. If, if you could wave a magic wand, what, what path would you send somebody down knowing that people can do it in different ways in terms of, you know, stepping into their power as an expert and, and, and delivering their value to the world through these different mediums, right? In what order would you suggest if you could get catch somebody at the beginning?

Nancy Giere: At the beginning, I think the first step is to come up with a great presentation in whatever way you're comfortable doing it. Most people are comfortable doing something like that live. So start there and then take a look at it and then go, next phase is to be on Zoom like we are now, and do it live online and go, okay, this is what I did when I was in front of a room. This is what worked. These are the activity I brought people through. Now that I'm in this different platform, what do I need to do differently? What do I need to change to be effective here? And really get comfortable working in this environment? And then take then step back and say, all right, of this, what makes sense then to turn into something that's evergreen and extract that from it. 
And one thing that I think is, can be really a powerful shift for people is, you know, get comfortable on Zoom, get comfortable presenting the content and then look at it and how would I break it into more discreet modules?
And do another live version really with clear transitions from topic one, topic two, topic three. Because what that does is it gives you the opportunity to have the energy of talking to a live audience. And then when you go to cut it into more discreet modules for Evergreen, you've created the space for the editor instead of just, I'm gonna just stop for 45 minutes. I think, I think that is a, is the easiest flow in because it's important that you get more and more comfortable with your content. It's not you've memorized something, but that you've embodied it in such a way that then you can speak to it, whether you're on a stage, whether you're live online or evergreen. Because the reality as we continue on here is you're going to need to be able to come out with all three. But I think the easiest and the most natural for people is to start in front of, of a live audience.

Chris Badgett: Solid advice there. That's Nancy Geary, it's n a n c y g i e r e.com. What can they find at your website? Tell us how people can connect with you and any, you know, final words for the people.

Nancy Giere: Well, on the, on the website, they can download my a easy steps to create training at sells, which is the whole framework of how I operate. And my email is out there and my phone number's out there, so you can call me if you want. I'm, I'm home ready to talk. I

Chris Badgett: Love that by the way. Like not hiding behind the website or whatever, like the connection is, is rare. And so why not? If you're in the spirit of Service

Nancy Giere: Connect. Yeah, why not? Yeah, I'm <laugh>. Yeah, I love to talk <laugh>, so it's not a problem. Then. I've just written a book called bundle Your Brilliance, turn Your Expertise into High Profit Online Programs, online Courses. And I'm just in the final phases, depending on the timing of all of this in having it available on Amazon and through my website. That will be around the middle of January. It, January 10th is actually my stake in the ground that I set where people can actually get the book, which then expands on what's in the, the eight easy steps.

Chris Badgett: That's awesome. And this podcast will likely be out after that. So go to Amazon now and look for Bundle Your Brilliance. Nancy, I want to thank you for coming on the show. You dropped so many knowledge bonds and, and you know, hard one lessons from all your experience. Thanks. Thank you for being so generous and sharing with the community today. We really appreciate it.

Nancy Giere: Oh, you're very welcome. I enjoyed it.

Chris Badgett: And that's a wrap for this episode of LMSCast. Did you enjoy that episode? Tell your friends and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And I've got a gift for you [email protected] slash gift. Go to lifter lms.com/gift. Keep learning, keep taking action, and I'll see you in the next episode.